Vandalised Gatso's

[Leon Roskilly]

aanthony:

Ah, speed bumps to slow traffic and so reduce accidents.....TOSH

 

In Lichfield, Staffs the local council decides to introduce two 1m square humps across each urban carriageway at 50m intervals to slow traffic and reduce accidents. (rarely any such accidents???)

 

The result.....more accidents due to bad drivers (driving at new 20mph limit) paying more attention to avoiding speed humps and less attention to on-coming traffic and pedestrians..... FACT!

 

Conclusion, bad drivers kill not speed.

Anthony,

 

All the research that I can locate emphatically and comprehensively demolishes your 'facts' and conclusion (see links I posted above, there's many more of the same if you delve a bit).

 

Can you provide any real evidence, apart from anecdote and opinion, to back up your views?

 

The problem is that all speed reduction methods, including cameras and calming, is shown to cost-effectively reduce the number and severity of accidents where they have been installed.

 

That's why they are so prevelant, much to the bitter opposition of the foot down merchants.

 

The pity is that if only people would drive at the correct speed, the money could far better be spent on other things.

 

But where people speed unrestrictedly, the cost of the accidents caused, and those not primarily caused by speeding are made so much worse by the speeds involved, even more money is diverted from other more worthwhile spending.

 

They aren't just put in for fun, or because of political pressure from the kill-joys.

 

A convincing cost-benefit case has to be made for every scheme. And all of the real facts and figures speak very loudly in favour.

 

Rant as you will, write indignant letters to the local council and local press, complain on internet forums, but until you can come up with good research that supports your case, or convince sufficient drivers to drive at safe speeds, the march of speed reduction measures will continue.

 

Eventually, all choice will be taken away from drivers, because a minority cannot be trusted to drive safely, convinced of the supremacy of their own skill and invunerability - despite all the hard evidence to the contrary.

 

Tight Lines - leon

[*Ant*]

Leon

 

Agree with you entirely, the figures do back you up tremendously. It is deffinately not the case on Weston road in Lichfield though I can assure you. I haven't any exact figures on this stretch of urban road but I would bet with you my mortage that more accidents have occured since the introdution of the traffic calming methods, try and get the records off Staffordshire Police, they will back me up. I have lived near this road for over 20 years and since the humps were introduced there has been numerous accidents and I personaly have had many a near miss due to drivers swerving in an attempt to dodge the said humps. These drivers are not the young "boy racer" type but the mothers on the school run and the older drivers not paying attention to what is comming the other way, beleive me I know through my own nerve shattering experiences.

 

I stick with the assumption that speed does not kill, yes mix speed with poor driving and your heading for disaster, poor driving is the biggest killer.

[Leon Roskilly]

aanthony:

Leon

 

Agree with you entirely, the figures do back you up tremendously. It is deffinately not the case on Weston road in Lichfield though I can assure you. I haven't any exact figures on this stretch of urban road but I would bet with you my mortage that more accidents have occured since the introdution of the traffic calming methods, try and get the records off Staffordshire Police, they will back me up. I have lived near this road for over 20 years and since the humps were introduced there has been numerous accidents and I personaly have had many a near miss due to drivers swerving in an attempt to dodge the said humps. These drivers are not the young "boy racer" type but the mothers on the school run and the older drivers not paying attention to what is comming the other way, beleive me I know through my own nerve shattering experiences.

 

I stick with the assumption that speed does not kill, yes mix speed with poor driving and your heading for disaster, poor driving is the biggest killer.

Usually the planning authorities have to do a safety audit before changing the road layout in any way, to ensure that the changes will not adversely affect any group of road users etc.

 

They also have to consult widely with the local community before any measures, such as speed bumps etc are installed, usually writing to all householders and premises, posting notices on lampsosts etc, and inviting comment from the general public and appropriate organisations.

 

I am aware that schemes in my area have been modified and, in some cases abandoned, after such consultation.

 

When any scheme goes in, there is usually a 'settling in' period, as users get used to the new layout.

 

It is not unusual for the level of accidents to go up during this period, as overtakers plough into an island that wasn't there before, people find themselves in the wrong lane and cut up other drivers, or run into new signage etc.,

 

Generally adverse comments, and press coverage thereof is ignored during this period.

 

The initial (and usually expected) sharp rise in incidents, is more than made up for in the reduction in incidents, over the years, once everyone is used to the new layout.

 

After a few months, when things have settled down, a further audit is done to see if the expected benefits have been delivered, whether unforseen adverse effects have occurred (such as rat-running down other streets), or whether other safety issues have arisen etc.

 

If so, the scheme is usually further modified, sometimes taken out altogether.

 

Try to get hold of the audits carried out before and after.

 

You'll probably find them quite interesting.

 

And yes, of course Ace drivers like you and me never have accidents.

 

As St Peter will tell you, so many arrive at the gate saying.....

 

'Why me? it was the other driver's fault. Yes I was doing 90, but it would have been perfectly safe except for that idiot!.....'

 

'I've been taking that bend, at that speed for over 20 years, and there's never ever been a tractor there before......'

 

'The road was clear, it was dry, it was perfectly safe - what happened?......'

 

'I'll kill that bloody mechanic, how was I to know the wheel was about to come off .......!'

 

'There was no traffic, no warning, I spotted the girder just a split second too late - It's not fair, I'm usually such a good driver with lightning reflexes......'

 

'....... If only I'd been going just 10 mph slower!'

 

Of course, each of us should have our own personal speed limit, related to our individual drtiving skills, the vehicle we are driving, the conditions of the day.

 

But of course that's impossible.

 

But making the population as a whole obey the often arbitary (actually if you delve you'll find that they aren't quite so arbitary, it's just that the safety engineer knows a lot more about that bit of road, and the factors that need to be considered than you do)speed limits, certainly reduces the number of accidents, the hours spent waiting in resultant traffic chaoes, and the grief and ruined lives of many people.

 

Tight Lines - leon

[Jim Roper]

Leon Roskilly:

Ever had something totally unexpected happen?

 

Just when everything is so safe and you feel totally confident.

 

Disbelief, reaction, thump!!

I think the family of the motorcyclist that hit a deer in Devon last week would agree!!!!

[*Ant*]

Leon, sadly no letters or consulting with the residents by the powers to be in Lichfield. The speed humps have also been in place for a couple of years. My own experiences would suggest that a group of drivers become preoccupied with avoiding the humps and therefore are not concentrating on the road ahead and the potential dangers from other motorists and pedestrians.

 

Good post BTW

[Leon Roskilly]

aanthony:

Leon, sadly no letters or consulting with the residents by the powers to be in Lichfield. The speed humps have also been in place for a couple of years. My own experiences would suggest that a group of drivers become preoccupied with avoiding the humps and therefore are not concentrating on the road ahead and the potential dangers from other motorists and pedestrians.

 

Good post BTW

Antony,

 

Try emailing paul.grosvenor@staffordshire.gov.uk

 

with your observations and questions.

 

He's the man responsible for traffic calming in Staffordshire and should be able to give you information specific to Weston Road, including what consultations and audits have taken place.

 

Tight Lines - leon