Someone Is Listening

[Leon Roskilly]

Wurzel,

 

Before 1939 there was concern at the falling level of fish stocks (not nearly down as far as they are now).

 

Then along came the U-boats, armed patrol boats, aircraft with guns and bombs, and the all significant fishing activity in European coastal waters ceased.

 

By 1945 the stocks had bounced back (not to what they had once been, but at a much higher level than immediately before the war).

 

Fishing started again, and this time with considerable and growing technological advances.

 

And many stocks went back into decline, much worse than they were in 1939.

 

Now, as you constantly say, it's not fishing that leads to stocks declining, nor cessation of fishing that allows their recovery.

 

Changed environmental conditions are what is behind it.

 

So, if it was not the level of fishing activity, what were the environmental, conditions that led to the decline up to 1939, the recovery during the war years, and the apparent accelerated decline since the end of the war?

 

Or is it that there the same number of fish, now as in 1945, just anti-fishing industry propoganda that denies it?

 

I'm interested because the decline in fishing before and after the war years, and the recovery of the stocks during hostilities is widely propounded as happening, and is one of the major drivers behind the proposals to establish MPAs.

 

If there is real evidence that the scenario is rubbish, or that other factors are the cause of those circumstances, it kind of blows the idea behind creating no-fishing areas out of the water.

 

Tight Lines - leon

Edited November 3, 2005 by Leon Roskilly

[clockwork angler]

From the CBC (canada) archives

 

http://archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-73-1595/polit...my/cod_economy/

 

try playing some of the video clips , section 9, " to the last fish" gives a good overview

 

Fished Out: The Rise and Fall of the Cod Fishery

 

"While the 1992 and 2003 fishing moratoriums were seen as tough medicine, fishermen were told that the bans were necessary if the cod stocks were ever expected to recover.

But more than a decade after the initial ban the Atlantic cod population continues its free fall.

This CBC Television report looks at new scientific research that suggests decades of overfishing has adversely affected the cod's breeding cycle, leaving them permanently stunted as a result"

 

"• In May 2003, former DFO scientist Ransom Myers made the cover of the journal Nature with his research into the effects of overfishing on the cod's breeding cycle and genetic structure.

• His research argued that excessive offshore fishing practices had destroyed an entire adult generation of cod in the space of 15 years"

 

"• As a result Myers said the species' breeding cycle was permanently disrupted, leaving the remaining cod to reproduce at a younger age and smaller size.

• As Myers puts it in this clip, "we've cut the head of off the fishery."

 

so stop trying to wind me up about theres no overfishing and blaming global warming

 

 

From the WWF website

 

http://www.wwf.org.uk/news/n_0000001871.asp

 

Cod over-fished despite ban

Tuesday 20 September 2005

Illegal fishing disguised as accidental catch of fish banned from commercial use is threatening to wipe out remaining cod stocks in the Grand Banks off Canada's east coast, warns a new report by WWF.

"This report highlights a key issue and a vital lesson for European fisheries managers hoping for cod recovery in our waters," said Helen Davies, WWF-UK Fisheries Officer.

 

"If this issue is not tackled soon in the EU cod recovery plan it could have a serious impact on and the UK's fishing economy, which is dependent upon cod."

 

The Grand Banks fisheries, once home to one of the world's most abundant populations of cod, collapsed in the 1990s, leading to a total fishing moratorium for this species in 1994.

 

However, the report shows that despite the ban, over 13,000 tonnes of cod and other fish, including American plaice and redfish, are taken every year as bycatch - the accidental capture of non-targeted fish. In 2003 alone, 5,400 tonnes of cod were caught as bycatch in the southern Grand Banks - about 90 per cent of the total population in that area and a 30-fold increase in bycatch since the fishery was closed.

 

Fishermen usually throw overboard unwanted marine species but are allowed to keep a small percentage of commercially valuable fish caught accidentally, which can be sold for profit. This has led to massive abuse, as many vessels are purposefully operating in areas where fishing of species such as cod is banned but their accidental catch very likely to happen.

 

The report shows that in some cases, bycatch can make up as much as 80 per cent of the landed catch, leading to huge profit increases.

 

"When there is a fishing moratorium, most people believe that endangered fish stocks are protected, but this is not the case," said Dr. Robert Rangeley, Director of WWF-Canada's Atlantic Marine Programme.

 

"The current level of cod bycatch clearly means that this species has little chance of recovery in the Grand Banks."

 

The WWF report criticises the Northwest Atlantic Fisheries Organization (NAFO) for mismanaging the fisheries under its control. It says that in eleven of these fisheries, where fishing is totally or partially banned because of depletion of their fish stocks, there are little signs of recovery, mainly because of the bycatch issue.

 

WWF is calling on the Canadian government and other NAFO nations to immediately take measures that will reduce the bycatch of cod on the southern Grand Banks by 80 percent, protect sensitive habitats, such as corals, from fishing, and address overcapacity - too many boats chasing too few fish - which is a root cause for overfishing and bycatch.

 

Canada has an added responsibility to ensure protection of species such as cod, as much of the Grand Banks waters lie solely within its jurisdiction.

 

"We need to act swiftly in order to restore the awesome productivity of the Grand Banks region," said Dr. Simon Cripps, Director of WWF's Global Marine Programme.

 

"If we continue to allow wasteful fisheries practices, fish stocks will never recover and coastal communities will continue to suffer. The government of Canada and NAFO fishing nations must act now in order to save our fisheries."

 

 

 

But I suppose to some its only WWF scare mongering

[wurzel]

Hello leon

 

I am pretty sure that MPA's won't make a bit of difference to overall stocks of nomadic fish, if that was not the case then the cod stocks around the oil wells would be a lot greater than surounding areas and this does not seem to be happening.

 

As for the stocks just after the war, all I know is that the haddock were plenteful in the north sea, as they are now, I have not seen much info on cod, but all the graghs Ive have seen usualy start around the 60's when cod stocks were unusualy high, I am pretty sure that the cod stocks in the southern north sea were not much higher in the 30 and the 40's than they are today. whether this is mirrored at the grand banks I don't know,

 

QUOTE

 

the recovery during the war years, and the apparent accelerated decline since the end of the war?

 

I thought the catches peaked through the 60' s and crashed rapidly early 70,s (about the same time as global warming started to be realised ,) thats 30 years after the war.

 

QUOTE

Or is it that there the same number of fish, now as in 1945, just anti-fishing industry propoganda that denies it.

 

they certainly like to dramatise it . they like you to believe that there is not a single cod left on the grand banks, I know this to be totaly untrue and infact there are guite large numbers of cod in places on the banks, or there was 5 years ago when a mate was fishing there. so I do take what they say with a pinch of salt, I am also sure they cherry pick the information to suit themselves.

[Ian Burrett]

so you don't think a rise of about 6 degrees in water temp had no effect at all then.

 

Wurzel

 

Firstly where does the 6 degrees come from. I read 1.5 degrees since the 70's

The sea temperatures off Cornwall is higher than the North sea and yet the stocks of big cod are increasing on the wrecks in areas where cod were rarely seen

 

 

The ironic thing is, in Canada they also blamed temperature change. In their case it was falling temperatures

 

From http://www.ices.dk/marineworld/recoveryplans.asp

Another cause is the wild card of environmental variation or ecological changes. Although there is a consensus that overfishing was one of the main causes of the collapse of the Canadian cod stock, it is thought that adverse environmental conditions (e.g. colder waters) also played a part, and continue to slow the recovery of the stock.

[clockwork angler]

regarding nomadic fish.

 

A fish migration route can be a MPA .

 

MPA's can be set up as a series of linked areas to take into account , MPA's don't have to be large tracks of the sea

 

As for the over dramtising the grand banks , its funny how scientist spend all this time studying and conducting research etc , only to be told they don't know what they are talking about , what a waste of education !

[wurzel]

Quote

so stop trying to wind me up about theres no overfishing and blaming global warming

you got to be kidding? until I see some real proof, and I mean see as in experience I shall continue to wind you up as much as I can.

[clockwork angler]

how much proof do you need ?

[wurzel]

QUOTE

The ironic thing is, in Canada they also blamed temperature change. In their case it was falling temperatures

 

Everdently cod don't like it too cold either, 2 degrees, below that they head south.

[spanner]

Wurzel,

 

If you dont trust what scientists say and will only accept your own experience and what you have seen then you have no chance at all of undertsanding the bigger picture. If you only work in one tiny little corner of the north sea how the hell do you expect to be able to grasp what is happenning overall.

 

That is the really sad part of such an attitude, becuase it means you will only admit there is a problem when it is too late, i.e. when it collapses totally and even you have no fish to catch.

 

It must be tough going through life believing the whole world is conspiring against you, all these scientsist who don't know how to fish properly or who just have hidden agenda's to keep their own job going..... when you dont have an agenda to keep yours......

Edited November 3, 2005 by spanner

[wurzel]

quote

But I suppose to some its only WWF scare mongering

 

you got that right.