Should Whitings be banned from Club competitons and open matches ?

[garfish]

Never thought I would say this kieren as I too love cod fishing but I have to agree with you. A friend of mine who fishes our club really opened my eyes to what is achievable. When cod have been allmost off the radar due to conditions he has been scratching and has shown great skill in regulally catching mixed bags of Whitings, Flounders, coalfish, rockling and every so often he even gets the odd codling in his scratching sessions. I have to admit I admire this lad greatly. He has learnt which areas of the beach each species is catchable at, what baits are best for each species as each one prefers something slightly different, how far to cast as the flounders he says are never beyond 20 yards whereas the coalfish he catches are at distance with a clipdown rig and lightline on a small reel. The lad is an allrounder who has caught 3 double figure cod in as many consecutive matches in recent years and as our clubs only ever qualifier for the penn sea league final he is as good as some of the best.

There are lots of people who knock this type of fishing but when you analyse it a lot of the critics have all tried the same things at times - Probably not with instant success so they retreat towhat they percieve as the moral high ground and suggest somehow it isnt quite fishing as it should be.

 

In my opinion no species of fish should ever be banned. Match fishing is about using your skill as an angler to catch what is there to be caught and is most likely, given the rules to which you are fishing (measure & return or weight etc) to produce a result. It is all about making decisions e.g. if there was Cod to be caught it would be foolish to target smaller species unless they were there in such numbers as to negate the effects of any bigger fish being caught. To dicount a particular species of fish just devalues match angling as the ability to use skill and judgement is taken away from the competitors. A good example is a Cod only match where ther majority of anglers will all be doing exactly the same thing, using the same baits on roughly the same rigs and casting roughly the same distance, when a Cod is caught there is not actually any more skill needed to catch a fish of 10lb than a fish of 8lb. Therfore, with everbody doing the same thing it is just a lottery.

 

As to the pros & cons of different rules etc I beleive all matches should be measure & return to weight and all fish over 18cm count regardless of species. This way all fish go back alive, big fish count for more than small fish and in order to compete you need to be an all round angler. The system also encourages younger anglers who may not have the physical ability to cast along away where the larger fish are usually found, they can however put tohether a decent bag of small fish at closer range and enabl;e them to compete with the grown ups. It also has the further addittion of keeping the adults on their toes and stops them just adopting the brain dead tactic of just clipping down and whacking it.

 

In the ideal world all matches would be fished on a completely level playing field e.g. the match would be pegged, fished in darkness so that are fish in close as well as at distance, all fish would count, the only bait used would be that supplied, the match would be decided on a continental zone points basis. A match fished like this is truly fair, no competitor can get an edge by having more time and money to dig or purchase specialist baits everyone has the same and the same amount, all anglers fishing the venue have an equal chance of being located in a good area. due to the continental points system the top few overall places will not go to those lucky enough to have a drawn a good peg. This is how international events are fished.

[big_cod]

Hiv garfish. the cod only matches are not quite what you think they are if you have fished the matches down here you would know this believe me bait is essential when fishing these matches the bigger cod do have favoriate baits which i myself have learned over the years different crab baits which i cant go into on here because i will be shot on sight makes the difference between a 2lb cod taking your bait and a 10lb cod taking your bait,if you have not got the right bait on a 10lb will swim straight past your bait to the person with the right bait on,worm baits tend to attract small codling rather than the big ones this is not always the norm but it is genrally the case a lot of matches are roving which means you have a wide area to pick from some like going down cliffs some dont but cod fishing is a very strange at times you have 10 men stood together and 1 man is catching very often its the bait.

[garfish]

Hiv garfish. the cod only matches are not quite what you think they are if you have fished the matches down here you would know this believe me bait is essential when fishing these matches the bigger cod do have favoriate baits which i myself have learned over the years different crab baits which i cant go into on here because i will be shot on sight makes the difference between a 2lb cod taking your bait and a 10lb cod taking your bait,if you have not got the right bait on a 10lb will swim straight past your bait to the person with the right bait on,worm baits tend to attract small codling rather than the big ones this is not always the norm but it is genrally the case a lot of matches are roving which means you have a wide area to pick from some like going down cliffs some dont but cod fishing is a very strange at times you have 10 men stood together and 1 man is catching very often its the bait.

 

 

What you have just posted illustrates my point exactly. Those have the time time and or money to get better bait than others does not mean they are a better angler. Just by having local knowledge of a mark also does not make a better angler. Match fishing should be about angling skill not bait, local knowledge or who gets to the best mark first. What satisfaction can be gained from winning a match just because you had better bait than the others and got to the mark first?

 

On your part of the coast it is impossible to peg the majority of matches due to the terrain being fished. However, they could be zoned. One way to cater for all is to pay equally prize amounts for the heaviest fish and heaviest bag this would cater for all.

[DoubleShotDamo]

It's only those who struggle to keep up when the fishing gets fast and furious that ask for certain baits and fish to be banned, the sort of people who want to fish a "catch a fish, win a prize" match. If it is a conservation point, i.e. too many whiting getting slaughtered, then we all know catch and release is the way forward. As for "Cod Only" matches, or the like, there is no skill in catching one single cod amongst 40 whiting! It is luck.

Edited February 16, 2006 by DoubleShotDamo

[garfish]

It's only those who struggle to keep up when the fishing gets fast and furious that ask for certain baits and fish to be banned, the sort of people who want to fish a "catch a fish, win a prize" match. If it is a conservation point, i.e. too many whiting getting slaughtered, then we all know catch and release is the way forward. As for "Cod Only" matches, or the like, there is no skill in catching one single cod amongst 40 whiting! It is luck.

 

I disagree with your point that It's only those who struggle to keep up when the fishing gets fast and furious that ask for certain baits and fish to be banned. You are corredct on one point the banning of certain fish. However, the banning of certain baits such as White Rag would benefit all. I and many other match anglers based on the south coast are in favour of bait bans and I can assure you that when the fishing is fast and furious for Whiting, Rockling, Pout Gars etc you will not see me struggling to keep up. Anyway, in those situations bait is not to important as fish are competing for food, it is more about confidence and time management and bait management. When there are lots of fish you can use smaller baits etc. The basic rule of thumb is that if you wind in a treble shot you left it out to long. One ten minute cast may catch three fish however, two 4 minute casts or less may catch 3 fish or 6 fish.

 

I beleive nearly all big fish caught in matches are luck are as they are rarely targeted, down here targeting big fish would lead to a blank most of the time.

[Guest @Winter@]

Garfish you make some strong points but I have to ask why banning white rag would benefit all ? I dont think it would benefit the person who uses them as their advantage would be gone. Same with other baits.

Do you not think that being a good angler involves many aspects including bait (time and effort involved - those who make the effort take the advantage), local knowledge, experience, the ability to percieve the sea and conditions, in addition to all the things you suggest like time management and positive thinking etc. I struggle to understand your perspective, which doesnt mean it isnt a good one.

 

Surely someone who drives 5 hours in the dead of night to dig a worm in a foreign country deserves any advantage that brings.

[garfish]

Garfish you make some strong points but I have to ask why banning white rag would benefit all ? I dont think it would benefit the person who uses them as their advantage would be gone. Same with other baits.

Do you not think that being a good angler involves many aspects including bait (time and effort involved - those who make the effort take the advantage), local knowledge, experience, the ability to percieve the sea and conditions, in addition to all the things you suggest like time management and positive thinking etc. I struggle to understand your perspective, which doesnt mean it isnt a good one.

 

Surely someone who drives 5 hours in the dead of night to dig a worm in a foreign country deserves any advantage that brings.

 

 

Winter,

many mach anglers agree with what you have said and beleive if you put in the effort to get better bait you should have that advantages that it brings. I do not agree with that and would prefer a completely level playing field for all competitors. It is then about your ability as an angler not bait gatherer or spender of money. As for banning whites, they are not a bait available to all without the need to drive great distances , when offered for sale they are often at extoriniate cost, if you are going to a match when you know whites will work and you haven not got the time to dig due to work committments or cannot afford them what is the point of turning up if you are going to be beaten by someone just because they have better bait. If matches were bait supplied everyone would have an equal chance, attendances would improve, the same old faces would not keep winning, local tackle shops would benefit from increased custom etc.

 

You have to ask yourself why people go to extreme lengths to get such baits. Are they wanting to try & win for the self satisfaction and enjoyment of competing or are they just trying to win money?

[zziplexboy]

I will never forget one match I fished some time ago and all that was biting were whiting. Bloke next to me had a three hook scratcher on on waited till he filled Up before bringing in. Legitamate tactics you might say but the sight of lots of deep hooked, dead undersized whiting washing about in the tide was enough to turn you into an animal rights campaigner.

I have never understood those tactics and the public walking along the beach were quite vocal in their condemnation. Just what we need if you look at that Independant article on banning fishing.

[Guest @Winter@]

Fair point garfish but to make all things equal would be hard if at all possible. How would you level out casting ability which can be improved with time and effort.

[stavey]

match angling that most sporting of all the areas of sea angling heaving multiple hooks and large chunks of lead to catch as many small fish possible that may or may not be in front of you? lottery fishing i think not!

 

As you can see i am not a fan as far as i am concerned you can stick it where the sun dont shine,

but for what it is worth if the rules where one hook only and a catch and release measure system was used and only the biggest round and flat counted excluding eels, then i might be tempted to fish one or two for a laugh????????