Trolling Deadbaits

[Dick Dastardly]

As Peter says nothing new here afterall it is just another deadbait mount. Some versions have been around for centurys.Must say though that a recent sample from this firm I looked at was very well made.Something a lot of pike trace/mounts arnt!

 

After god knows how many hours/miles spent trolling baits and my love of trolled lures I have come to the conclusion that trolling baits is pants!Certainly for Trout Res pike and not that great a shakes on any other waters.

 

Amount of takes converted to good hook ups is very poor.I put this down to the fact that the bait is mounted on the hook the "wrong way round" ie head up. Has to be with lives (else they drown) and doesnt "look right" if you dont with deads.Trouble is that it doesnt matter if the bait is live or dead the pike (aint clever enough to distinguish if a moving bait is dead or alive once its nailed it) the pike still treats it the same and trys to turn it,often after grabbing it side ways. An instant strike often fails even with multi hook rigs as are often reccomended.You let the fish turn the bait and when you strike the hooks are facing in the wrong direction and often dont take hold properly! No if I want to troll for pike these days I stick to lures.

 

My mates and my veiws on this seem to have become quite common among many hardcore bait trollers like the lads at Ardingly and Weirwood.Sh1t it was all any of us did on the res's that allowed bait at one stage.Loads of hours put in developing tackle and perfecting the technique.

 

Strangely enough you dont get the same problem when trolling natural baits for Ferrox but thats as they say a different story!

 

Another interesting point brought up is the removing of hooks from lures/mounts.On a three hook set up which one do you lot remove (ie head/belly/tail) and why? Ive heard lots of equally good but differing arguments on this one!

[StuMac]

I've done very well trolling lives or dead, but just mount baits "head up" on a normal trace. Can't see the advantage of the rig shown.

 

I've also watch pike feed in aquariums and have seen two types of take. If the prey is small, it just gets engulfed and the pike carries on swimming as if nothing has happened, swolling the bait as it goes.

 

If the bait is big (10 inch pike, 3 inch bait) then the pike invariably grabs it by the head, swims straight to the bottom and sits there absolutely motionless with the prey fish thrashing in its jaws. No attempt is made to swollow the prey until it's well and truely dead. The longest I've seen a pike sit like that this and make no attempt to swollow the bait is three hours!

 

The one thing I've never seen is the classic "Mr Crabtree" take where the pike swims off with the bait across its jaws and then "turns" it a few seconds later.

 

At the time we had the pike in the aquarium I was starting to use big baits (12 oz - 1 lb trout). The experiment was not that succesful, as small pike seemed just as ready to attack big baits as small ones but you hardly ever hooked them.

 

After watching pike feeding I put the hooks right up at the head end, and this did help a bit. I recon a single treble would be just as good as a "flight" of trebles to be honest, they always got their jaws clamped around the head, which held the gills closed.

 

I came to the conclusion that big baits didn' select or attract big fish but just involved loosing anything but a double. I honestly don't catch that many pike to be so selective - I actually do enjoy catching fish in the 4 - 8 lb category - so that was the end opf the experiment!

[Dick Dastardly]

Stu,my experiments with big baits showed much the same.The trouble Ive found with trout reservoir pike (regardless of size) is that they are conditioned to feed in a certain way.They treat all prey/baits regardless of size in the same way.This I believe is due to their main food being 1 1/4lb stockies.They all grab the bait as Stu says then wait untill it is half dead/motionless before trying to turn it.Simpley because if they were to release their grip on it prior to this it would just escape! This becomes a pre ordained way of feeding and the fish just isnt intelligent enough to chage this as it itself grows bigger or if it happens to come across a smaller prey/bait.

 

This is why on Trout Res's runs can be left for so long or hit so quickly with no difference on the hook up.Never came across this on any other type of water.Even the Bream waters,allthough I think this is probably because their are more suitable size to size of pike prey avaiable.

 

I also find my take to hook up ratio with trolling is far better on "normal" waters than trout res's.Dont fish these sort of waters from a boat much these days though compared to most winter weekends spent afloat on the res.

 

I was sold on trolling baits for many years and it was my first line of attack on all of the Trout res's that bait was allowed on.If I had my time again though I wouldnt be trolling thats for sure.

Edited May 29, 2006 by BUDGIE

[Peter Waller]

Regarding big baits and big fish, no, I'm not convinced either. I have gone down that path with both deads and jerk baits. Stumac is right!

 

Where lures are concerned I rarely use anything over 5" now, and certainly not the massive baits that some folk deem as nescessary.

[Dick Dastardly]

Now on lures Ive got to disagree.Ive found 8" to my optimum size for most waters.Anything bigger though in general I find not as effective.I think it must have something to do with the giant lures being to "obvious".Hard to explain but I think that if they are to big,no matter how realistic they look the fish can still see them for what they are ie lumps of wood or plastic.Up to around 8" I think that it is the "illusion" of life that is created by the movement/vibration/shine that fools them.

 

A good example is that Ive caught plenty of pike from one res on both the standard (7") and 9" Suick Thriller but never had a fish on the bigger versions.

 

Another thing Ive found though is if you use a lure much larger than the normal (for the individual water) prey it can "spook/frighten" the pike.I base this on catching many jacks on big res's on 5" plus lures where on the Marsh drains the same sized lure causes them to shy away.

 

Out of interest I have caught big cats on the Muskie Jitterbug but struggled with a 12" version a friend made for me despite the prey fish averaging around 4lb.

[Steve Burke]

I'm with Budgie on lure size.

 

For years I've used 3 to 5 inch lures for pike. To begin all my friends did too as there were very few bigger lures available. When muskie lures started to come in from the States friends started using them. I didn't, as I've always had an eye out for specimen perch. It's significant that, unlike in the old days, my friends now catch more big (15lb+) pike than I do, although I often catch more pike overall. They don't however catch as many perch, and of course there are days when my small lures will outfish their big ones for pike - but more often it's the other way around.

 

For many years I was in a state of denial, but facts are facts, and I've now had to eat my words and agree that my friends are right - big lures are usually better for big pike.

Edited May 31, 2006 by Steve Burke

[Dick Dastardly]

I was the same to Steve! for many years I regarded a 35grm Pikko as a massive trolling spoon! and a standard Bang-0-B plug the same Its no doubt down to the fact that we were "brought up" on ABU Tobies,Hi-Lo's and a pretty p1ss poor selection of US Bass lures!

 

Seeing Steve (curse this mangled brain of mine cant recall his surname at the moment) land 6 20's in one day at Llandegfedd on the 00 size Kussumo Proffesor spoon changed my mind! He was casting them as well!

 

I also believe that one of the reasons the now well dissproved "lures only catch small pike" doctrine came about was down to the fact that we all fished with such small ones.

 

Strange how most pikers will happily fish 8" of mackeral but baulk at the mere thought of a lure of the same size?

 

 

Ah remembered! Steve Gould See its all still in there! A bit like my old lap top......it just takes time to retrieve the information