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Royal Navey threaten to fire on a local trawler.


Guest jay_con

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Guest jay_con

Only that defra deny most of it. They say the navey officers were unarmed and that they made no threat to fire. They refused to comment further as there is an ongoing investigation. Here is a quote " Following a routine inspection we can confirm that sucess 3 was detained to Grimsby on suspision of alleged fishery offences following an inspection by an unarmed boarding party of officers from hms mersey. We fully refute any claim that the master or any crew were required to remain in the wheelhouse or were treated improperly in any way. We must emphasize that boarding by uk fisheries protection vessels are never conducted by armed personnel. At no time was there ever any question of the vessel being fired upon"

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"we are unable to comment further as an investigation into the alleged offences is ongoing"

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Guest Flybynight

Hi Wurzel - not sure I get you there. I think we went to war for a load of reasons - but one, was protection of human rights, no? Have to admit, I'm only 33 so I don't know a lot about it to be honest.

 

I was just trying to say, that its dead popular to whinge about human rights legislation dragging the country to the dogs. But I prefer that to the alternative. Yes - there's a load of stupid litigation that occurs here, American style, which is a bit irritating. But I'd tolerate that if it means we get police accountability, respect for property, right to fair trial, limits of statutory power etc. I've seen the other close up and it ain't pretty.

 

And once you've had your own human rights infringed, I think most folks would end up agreeing with that.

 

We should ask that skipper... :)

 

FBN

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Hi Flybynight,

 

Two wars were fought to establish our freedom and many of us suffered personal losses.

 

Today’s humane rights fail all to often to taken into consideration the rights of the UK indigenous population.

 

If you travel the world you would find that the vast majority of countries put their indigenous populations first and that is how it should be.

 

All to often foul play is called as a way of masking infringements of UK law and the do-good brigade take up these fights for headlines and profits.

 

As examples:

 

Try to take a copy of the bible into KSA.

 

Try to buy a property in Thailand in your own name.

 

Try to set up a business in the Middle East or many other countries without an indigenous partner.

 

Look at the record of Africa in dealing with foreign settlers.

 

Look at how criminals in the UK more often than not have more rights than the victims.

 

I do not support a police state but there are hundreds of imbalances in the UK, which need to be addressed.

 

In the case we are debating there is obviously lots of information, which is not available to us, and the law has no way of addressing statements currently being made without jeopardising any future court case.

I fish, I catches a few, I lose a few, BUT I enjoys. Anglers Trust PM

 

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http://www.petalsgardencenter.com

 

Petals Florist

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Guest Flybynight

Ken Davison South Wales:

Hi Flybynight,

 

Two wars were fought to establish our freedom and many of us suffered personal losses.

 

Today’s humane rights fail all to often to taken into consideration the rights of the UK indigenous population.

 

If you travel the world you would find that the vast majority of countries put their indigenous populations first and that is how it should be.

 

All to often foul play is called as a way of masking infringements of UK law and the do-good brigade take up these fights for headlines and profits.

 

As examples:

 

Try to take a copy of the bible into KSA.

 

Try to buy a property in Thailand in your own name.

 

Try to set up a business in the Middle East or many other countries without an indigenous partner.

 

Look at the record of Africa in dealing with foreign settlers.

 

Look at how criminals in the UK more often than not have more rights than the victims.

 

I do not support a police state but there are hundreds of imbalances in the UK, which need to be addressed.

 

In the case we are debating there is obviously lots of information, which is not available to us, and the law has no way of addressing statements currently being made without jeopardising any future court case.

Hi Ken,

 

As we've discussed before, I'm not sure I believe in such a thing as a UK indigenous population. It's just too subjective a term to be of any practical use. Where do you cut it off? Who is in and who is out? Such terms are used by extremists (Daily Mail readers and the like :D ) to create divisions but don't bear much scrutiny. Am I an indiginous UK Brit? Well - I was born here - but only one of grandparents were. Same as lots of folks who many in the UK would NOT consider to be indiginous. Such as many of our Asian community for eg. Well... What about the Irish, our largest ethinc minority. Same rights for them as us? Or shall we go down the US route, and legislate for nationals above foreigners? Well, I've been on the receiving end of that (as a foreign employee - with no legislative protection) and it wasn't very nice.

 

As for the other examples you discuss, I agree with most of them (the property one is a bit more complicated perhaps? I'd welcome restrictions on some forms of property ownership here as well). But I don't want to be like those others: I want to be different. And one of the things that differentiates us is our respect for human rights. Which human rights do we want to stop respecting? Look what has happened in the US when they have torn up their human rights legislation. Their justice has become indiscriminate.

 

And indiscriminate justice is a seriously backward step. Did you hear that there are 5 Americans who have been held in Iraq for some months without charge or trial?. One was found with detonators in his vehicle. Fair enough you may say. One though was an investigative journalist. Not quite so cool therefore. And the result of removing independent, judicial control over these areas is that we allow the military say, to make the judgements. And we know - from past history - that they are not discriminating, and have a different agenda from society. They end up locking up the innocent - and not just one or two: clearly (released quietly without charge or trial) many of those in Guantanamo Bay were never involved in any threat to the US, and had definitely not broken any US or International law.

 

I genuinely believe that we can do lots about improving how we deal with victims of crime without throwing away our human rights legislation. It is a really specific example - and a very valid one. But - lets see what human rights legislation actually does on a daily basis. It stops people from discriminating in employment situations on the basis of race, colour, religion, gender. Difficult for small businesses (I know - I run one). It stops the police from just stopping and searching black people because they are black (I've got a mate - never touched drugs - who was stopped and searched severally times a week through his teens because he was black and he lives in St Paul's Bristol). I'm white (and probably middle class?) and have never been stopped or searched though obviously quite capable of taking or dealing drugs. (The only drug dealer I ever knew is the white daughter of a 60's pop star type). Human rights legislation stops that imbalance - and I'm very happy with that.

 

Anyway...I think what I'm trying to say is: yes, we should do something about the stupid cases (and I recognise there are loads). But let's not throw the baby out with the bath water: I believe that historically it is due to the 'do gooders' that our society is equitable, women have the vote, slavery was abolished, etc etc etc. Just my view - but those are the people I read about, and the same arguments thrown against them by the political right wing.

 

Cheers

 

FBN

 

[ 08. July 2005, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: Flybynight ]

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