Moral Dilemma

[Vagabond]

Thanks Leon for that information. I couldn't agree more with your suggestion of USA-style slot limits.

 

A few weeks back I posted something about the introduction of slot limits - ie put back all fish BELOW a Minimum size (juveniles) and all fish ABOVE a Maximum size (large breeding adults - thus maintaining the genetic diversity Leon is talking about).

 

Eg in the case of bass - return all fish below 2lb or above 4 lb . So only fish between two and four pounds are kept.

 

Add a bag limit to that (say two fish in any one day) because medium sized fish also would like the chance to become breeding adults (ask any teenager )

 

That might be even better than saying - "put back all bass below 4 lb" although I certainly agree with the sentiments of Spasor's most recent post.

 

Davy makes a good point about making judgements as to whether or not a fish will survive - they have amazing powers of recovery - and as I and others have already said, if its not going to survive at least if its back in the water its likely to go into the food chain via another fish.

 

There was no response to my previous post mentioning slot limits - perhaps I didn't spell it out well enough.

 

So - again. What do others think about slot limits ? I can see problems about applying them to commercial fishing, but should we anglers think seriously about them ?

 

[ 21. October 2002, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Vagabond ]

[red dragon]

We seem to have a problem that rears it's ugly head constantly. If you fish for food you obviously live in a productive area otherwise you fall into the situation where you are so short sighted that you can be personally excused for taking a few small fish as what harm can one person make. We make judgements on other countries for they're eating habits, ie Dog meat in Indonesia, But what if worse, eating an animal bred purely for the table(No, contray to popular belief they don't eat kidnapped pets) or eating Cod for a few quid from the local chippy removed from the decimated fish stocks of the North sea.

Next year when we are spinning for a few Mackerel and blank out, you can always blame it on Seals etc..

[ShoreDemon]

To relate back to the initial question I'd put the injured fish back. Primarily because the fish is undersized (biologically and in terms of sport, rather than just legally) and if it lives or dies it will be recycled through the food chain. Why is it that this appears to be only acceptable if another fish eats it? All members of the food web are just as entitled to it.

 

Although considering that I return about 90% of my catch regardless of any factors (to the amazement of my parents and most locals) maybe it's easier for me to answer such a question.

 

As to slot limits, this has always appealed to me as the idea of returning non-breeding juvenile fish and keeping fully reproducing adults has always been a bit daft to me. However, unless applied to commercial catches it will have minimal impact on marine stocks. How this could be done is beyond me, any case studies Leon?

 

Neil.

[codroamer]

I caught a bass of 2lb+ - at Gravesend a couple of years ago and it looked so beautiful, I couldn't bring myself to 'it it over the 'ead,...call me old fashioned. As for the dilemma, I've been pondrering but can't make my mind up, but I'm certain of one thing. It's a definite maybe!

[rufus]

Slot limits...seems like a good reason to stop fishing at all!

If you fish for sport only, and you like the rush of catching big fish and like trophy pictures of you and your prey popping up on tackle shop walls then why bother keeping any fish you catch, put them all back because fishing is, for you, all about personal ego gratification.

If on the other hand you fish for food then do something about the gut hooking problem. Sort out your rigs and make sure it can't happen easily. Then kill every fish above limit and eat it . Stop fishing when you have caught enough of one species for your needs and then if you must carry on fishing, change tactics and fish for another species. If you have caught a number of undersize fish and they were gut hooked then use them as bait or eat them on the spot.

 

Rules and regulations, bag limits, slot limits, what next... bait restrictions, day tickets, licenses, private angling beaches, syndicates tying up the best marks?

 

Sea fishing is mercifully free of these petty beaurocratic meddlings, lets keep it that way. In an ideal world these questions would not arise because the decision would be firmly in the hands of the angler and kill or keep would be a private decision where the angler exercises his discretion. A decision based upon knowledge and experience.

 

Don't let sea fishing go the way of coarse fishing...managed, controlled, restricted, predictable, boring.

 

[ 22. October 2002, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: rufus ]

[Leon Roskilly]

The Dutch'Oceaan VI' and German 'Helen Mary' were arrested for discarding herring and mackerel. (Photo:O Hjellestad)

Two pelagic trawlers arrested for discards

 

NORWAY

Tuesday, October 22, 2002, 14:00 (GMT + 9)

 

The Dutch Oceaan VII and German Helen Mary were arrested by the Norwegian Coast Guard on Friday. A routine inspection revealed that the vessels used sorting equipment to dump herring bycatch and small mackerel during mackerel fisheries.

 

The vessels were taken to Bergen and will remain there until the police have finished questioning the crew.

 

"The vessels were subjected to routine inspections by Coast Guard vessel Ålesund on Friday north of the Viking Bank. The vessels were fishing legally, but we found that both vessels used sorting machinery to dump fish. In the case of Oceaan VII, we found that the vessel dumped the herring bycatch and small mackerel. In addition, the vessel had failed to enter the herring bycatch in the catch journal. The German vessel was found to dump bycatch herring," Lieutenant Commander Tom Zachariasen told FIS.com.

 

It is illegal to discard bycatch and small fish in the Norwegian Economic Zone (EEZ).

 

"Both captains claimed ignorance of Norwegian law and the matter is now in the hands of the police," Zachariasen informed.

 

The two vessels were catching in the same area, but are not thought to have cooperated in any way. The Coast Guard did not specifically look for sorting machinery, but found the machinery to be operating during processing of mackerel. Zachariassen said that these were the first arrests of vessels operating sorting machinery this year and he could not recall the last time vessels had been arrested for this.

 

By Odin Hjellestad

FIS Europe

 

Jan Kappel, Secretary-General, EAA

'European Anglers´ Alliance'

 

EAA Office:

82 Rue F. Pelletier

B-1030 Brussels

Belgium

 

Tel: +32 (0)2 732 0309

Fax: +32 (0)2 736 2858

Mobile: +32 (0)498 840523

E-mail : eaa.aepl@skynet.be

[ShoreDemon]

rufus:

...fishing is, for you, all about personal ego gratification.

Rufus,

 

Not all of us that fish for sport are ego freaks. I like to catch big fish cos it's enjoyable not because it makes my d**k bigger I don't generally eat the fish I catch so I return them. I agree that slot limits are too restrictive for anglers and, as I said before, would only have an impact on stocks if applied to the commercial sector. This is where my interest lies in terms of limits. Your ideal world scenario will exist when greed is no longer a human trait, so I won't be holding my breath!

 

Neil.

[Cod Stopper]

I'd go with C.

 

I don't know if this is true but I've heard that bronzed hooks? (Kamasans?) will dissolve in saltwater fairly quickly. So if you get broken by a fish the hook will eventually dropout/break up/dissolve. I don't suppose that a dissolving hook would do a deep hooked fish any favors (i.e dissolved metal passing through its gut) but it might not kill it.

 

If this is true let's all used bronzed? hooks, cut the line as close to the eye as possible and chuck the fish back in. Sorry, gently return it.

 

Ian

[Jim Roper]

Leon Roskilly:

 

It is illegal to discard bycatch and small fish in the Norwegian Economic Zone (EEZ).

This makes it sound like it would be illegal for a commercial fisherman to through back an undersize fish, while a leisure angler would be open to prosecution.

Do the rules apply only to 'landing' fish?

As for putting it back dieing to take it's place in the food chain, aren't we part of the food chain.

If it's dead then eat it on board and no rules are broken perhaps.

 

Jim Roper

[rufus]

Neil

 

In my ideal world I would have every sea angler retain every fish over size and then sell every fish caught over his requirements to his neighbours, local restaurant or fishmonger. The angler would recover some of the cost of his fishing and at the same time reduce the demand on the commercial sector for fresh fish.

I recently sold 5 whiting out of my catch to a neighbour and she insisted that a fiver was a fair price for such fresh fish. This is far more than she would have ever paid for the same from the fishmongers.

I just checked the price of farmed bass at my local ASDA...no less than £6.63 per pound!! ( for fish that would be considered undersize by any self respecting angler) This puts the value of my recently caught 4.5lb specimen at no less than £29.84!!!! I have no doubt that if I had sold this fish to an uptown restaurant within a few hours of capture, then the price would have been substantially higher.

Little wonder that so called "scumbags" exploit bass nurseries when the rewards are so very high. I would expect that the poaching of bass nurseries for anything that swims will become the biggest headache for all in the coming years.

Bass are the new Salmon if price is any guide.