White fish fleet could be wiped out by new EC demands

[wurzel]

Hi Wurzel

 

We have had a month of gales 8 and often more. These boats come in to fish in sheltered waters as they are better earning something.

 

I think the incredible recovery in Lundy justified the above comments I made.

 

The comments I made was in relation to fish not shell fish. The clams are free swimmers and will often return to the same grounds to colonise. What attracts them I don't know

 

Are there any local trawles that work the same grounds for fin fish?

[Ian Burrett]

Are there any local trawles that work the same grounds for fin fish?

 

Hi Wurzel

 

Luce Bay is 17 x 14 miles Only static nets are allowed from March the 1st till October 31st, but non of the locals bother anymore as it just isn't viable.

 

The local boys are working the creels for Lobster and Buckie's

 

We were pestered by tope longliners for a month and a couple of super crabbers came up and the locals managed to impose an under 60 ft ruling for the bay.

 

That's it apart from the dredgers.

 

The Mull of Galloway is a 20 mile peninsula less than a mile wide. The west of the area overlooks the Irish Sea where there are no restrictions. The Pelagic fleet are often down here for the Mackerel and Herring but all the bottom trawling is carried out further North on the prawns.

 

There would be no point trawling the bottom as the quantity and quality of fish just aint there anymore. I am not joking Wurzel when I says grounds that were prolific 15 - 20 years ago are now barren or full of millions of immature Whiting, It does my head in at times. I just can't see anything getting better as the white fish stocks come down from the North and have to pass the ever increasing langoustine fishery which has a major discard problem which no one seems to care about.

 

We would regularly catch dragonets whilst fishing for flatties on size 2/0 hooks.

 

I do blame commercial pressure for the demise of the rays, with regards to the thornbacks, we could catch anyting up to 50 a tide . The locals from my village had 20 miles of net out and i guess it would be the same for the other villages around the bay. We never saw one on rod and line from 1998 to 2003 but they are making a small comeback and my only fear is the local lads will dig out the nets again if they become viable

 

It's not just Luce Bay but the whole of the West coast of Scotland. The Clyde used to be more prolific than the East coast for cod and haddock. I had a pal left Newcastle to live on the Clyde because the cod fishing was so good.

 

A few years ago a competition with over a thousand anglers with thousands of pounds of prize money was won a 10 oz dab. as no Cod was caught. The Clyde used to support 52 Cod fishing charter boats and now there is one.

 

I have a theory and it may be a load of bollacks, but I think that the fine balance in the Eco system may have been unbalanced by removing the Spurdog. The Apex predators have to have a role in the sea or they wouldn't have survived for so long. Could the millions of 8 - 12 inch whiting that the spur dog used to eat be eating the eggs and fry off the other fish.

Edited December 8, 2006 by Ian Burrett

[wurzel]

Morning Ian

Another cancelled trip, will this weather ever let up?

 

You paint a very bleak picture of the fishing in your area, Luce Bay ain't so big then, I doubt there is room for many boats to work 20 miles of skate nets,(a bit of anglers perception perhaps) and with angling boats catching 50 fish a tide, puts a lot of pressure on a small patch of ground, is there a local size limit on rays? here it is 40cm wing tip to wing tip.

In that area, 17X14 there is probably enough for one or two boats working 3 miles of net (as we do) to earn a living, any more is over fishing that bay.

 

 

Has nothing increased? Pollock, bass, Dover sole, nature does not normally allow vacuums, you don't run your charter business on no fish.

Like Big Cod, he can't make up his mind, one thread he says the pair trawlers have killed it all, then another he's bragging how many cod his anglers are catching, what can you brag about? I remember you saying the Pollock fishing was excellent, you say it's down to catch and release, do all anglers in the bay practice catch and release then?

 

Do you honestly believe that a handful of prawn trawlers stop all the cod and haddock from migrating south?

I believe that the discard problem will, if it hasn't already, be addressed, I bet you will not see a difference in your fishing.

I remember reading about the cod fishing in the Clyde when I was a lad, seems that it's gone the same way as the southern end of the English channel, I still say that it ain't much to do with over fishing.

I think I've read on this forum that the bass fishing around the Mull of Galloway is pretty good and on the increase, isn't that where Snatcher has his caravan?

 

You may be right about the spurdogs, about the only fish I can relate to over fishing perhaps, they used to pay us a flying visit every spring, I never noticed that they made much impact on the whiting, plenty of other fish eat small whiting, most of the fish we catch are stuffed to the gills with them, from large soles to bass and cod so other fish benefit from the small whiting.

 

The Thames Estuary is like Luce Bay, an enclosed sheltered area although about four times as big, over the years it's had some hammer from quite intense commercial pressure, including beam trawlers and miles of skate nets, it's had nothing like the effect that you describe.

[Guest challenge]

There Challenge; I have shown my colors. None of them will be new to my regular anglers, or long term posters on this forum. It's about time you laid down yours

Quite simple Ian.

I would like to be left alone. So would our anglers.

Look if you want to carry on in your little part of the world practising catch and release then please do. I take my hat off to you if you have built up a business doing what you and your anglers want to do.

I am not going to try and stop you. So why should we have to also stop doing what we have done for years. Stop doing what we have built businesses up on over the years.

everybody seams to think that we (rsa) cannot harm fish stocks (realistically) so why should we stop doing what we do all over the north sea too practice what you do in your little corner of the world, where I would imagine that if you did not practice catch and release you would have problems.

“Pay for a rod license and practice bag limits.”” It may not sound attractive at the moment but if it gets rid of just one set of pair trawlers it will have been worth while.” A comment like that made by your fellow representatives just doesn’t wash with me Ian. It doesn’t wash with the thousands of anglers that come with us each year.

I hope my true colours are not too black and white for you.

regards.

[Leon Roskilly]

"Pay for a rod license and practice bag limits.”” It may not sound attractive at the moment but if it gets rid of just one set of pair trawlers it will have been worth while.” A comment like that made by your fellow representatives just doesn’t wash with me Ian.

 

Hmmmm!

 

 

Do you have a reference for that Challenge?

 

 

Or is it a bit of gross misquotation, completely out of context?

Edited December 8, 2006 by Leon Roskilly

[Guest challenge]

Hmmmm!

Do you have a reference for that Challenge?

Or is it a bit of gross misquotation, completely out of context?

try post # 273

A bag-limit by itself brings no benefit to anyone apart from the commercial fishermen who fear that unlicensed rod an line fishermen and 'hobby' netsmen take away some of their market. And a limit on anglers and hobby fishermen would mean more fish for them.

 

A licence by itself brings no benefit to anglers if it just means money is taken from anglers for what they get free now. Or worse that the licence money was used to pay towards current fisheries management purely for the benefit of the catching sector.

 

But imagine if as part of a package that included bag limits of 50 cod per day for anglers, pair trawling for cod was banned.

 

Imagine that a licence was part of a package that meant no netting or trawling within 10 miles, increased commercial mls for all species above their spawning size, closure of nursery areas and close seasons on breeding fish.

[Leon Roskilly]

So,

 

But imagine if as part of a package that included bag limits of 50 cod per day for anglers, pair trawling for cod was banned.

 

becomes:

 

 

"Pay for a rod license and practice bag limits.”” It may not sound attractive at the moment but if it gets rid of just one set of pair trawlers it will have been worth while.”

 

 

 

!!!!!!

 

 

(Notwithstanding the context of the post, which wasn't a proposal, but a suggestion that there could possibly be a package where anglers might find something worthwhile signing up for, if they give a little and stand to gain a lot!)

 

 

 

 

And on another occasion a commercial fisherman submitting a posting from this forum to Fishing News becomes 'an RSA representative'

 

 

!!!!!!!

 

 

Challenge, Really.

 

 

You do take the biscuit sometimes!! LOL

Edited December 8, 2006 by Leon Roskilly

[Guest challenge]

So,

 

But imagine if as part of a package that included bag limits of 50 cod per day for anglers, pair trawling for cod was banned.

 

becomes:

"Pay for a rod license and practice bag limits.”” It may not sound attractive at the moment but if it gets rid of just one set of pair trawlers it will have been worth while.”

!!!!!!

(Notwithstanding the context of the post, which wasn't a proposal, but a suggestion that there could possibly be a package where anglers might find something worthwhile signing up for, if they give a little and stand to gain a lot!)

And on another occasion a commercial fisherman submitting a posting from this forum to Fishing News becomes 'an RSA representative'

!!!!!!!

Challenge, Really.

You do take the biscuit sometimes!! LOL

Sounds about the same to me.

And I have searched for your quick reply when you where answered

 

“That this was strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles? The conduct of RSA affairs for private advantage”

 

But you didn’t seam to want to make a denial of that at the time. Strange how things have changed.

[Leon Roskilly]

Sounds about the same to me.

And I have searched for your quick reply when you where answered

 

“That this was strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles? The conduct of RSA affairs for private advantage”

 

But you didn’t seam to want to make a denial of that at the time. Strange how things have changed.

 

 

 

That was Binatone Challenge.

 

Sometimes his cryptic posts meant something to him, but hardly worth figuring out what he might have meant to be worth replying to.

 

Shame that he's no longer here, otherwise he could take the time to explain exactly what he was trying to say.

 

Funny thing is that in the same thread Binatone writes:

 

'Leon has shown his true colours, would you like to now show yours? Or is that too many questions for you.'

 

 

That pre-occupation with 'true colurs' hmmmm!

 

I guess that you've been spending time with him recently Challenge, and have picked up some of this from him?

Edited December 8, 2006 by Leon Roskilly

[Guest challenge]

That was Binatone Challenge.

 

Sometimes his cryptic posts meant something to him, but hardly worth figuring out what he might have meant to be worth replying to.

 

Shame that he's no longer here, otherwise he could take the time to explain exactly what he was trying to say.

 

Funny thing is that in the same thread Binatone writes:

 

'Leon has shown his true colours, would you like to now show yours? Or is that too many questions for you.'

That pre-occupation with 'true colurs' hmmmm!

 

I guess that you've been spending time with him recently Challenge, and have picked up some of this from him?

I don’t think that there’s anything cryptic about his answer do you? Striate forward if you ask me.

It might have been just a little striate forward for you to answer to leon. We will never know.

Still at least now we know you are not in denial.

As for true colours, well I keep getting asked what mine are so I thought I would ask the same about other peoples true colours.

You take care now comrade.

Regards.

Edited December 8, 2006 by challenge