IDENTIFYING CARP

[Oldfellah]

Hi GH, no critisism intended however carp as thin as those in your pictures are so far removed from the norm for healthy carp that I can only assume that lack of nourishment is the cause. As said by another poster it could be that certain fish are suffering from a parasites or some other problem but most certainly they are not a specific strain of carp but suffering for whatever reason from malnourishment. Obviously that is only my opinion. I sincerely hope that I am wrong.

 

Hello Oldfellah,

 

Thanks for replying and for your comments. I can't go along with the underfed part as all the fish I've caught have been in perfect condition. They haven't been hollow or tucked up in any way. In real life they look brand spanking new.

 

In fairness, the photos weren't the best in the world and the flash has obviously interfered with the true colouring of the eye.

 

As I understand it, the lake was drained 4 years ago and any big carp were taken out leaving all young fish. The lake was an old established fish farm which is now used for private pleasure fishing only.

 

Before this gets too far out of hand and we go down the wrong track, I want to assure you and everyone else that these are not poorly conditioned carp. In my mind, this is clearly an odd breed.

 

But thanks again for your contribution.

[poledark]

I think I will have to go along with Old fellas comments. I have been catching carp for almost 60 years. Most of the early years were smallish ponds and old estate lakes. The stock were without exeption common scaled fish, long and lean, but always well rounded. Often large numbers in a small area of water.

 

I never saw any that resembled the ones in your pic.

 

Later years saw the introduction of "king carp" mirrors etc which were a different shape (in fact a variety of shapes ) Some of these crossbred with the old stock and produced a type in between the typical King carp and the old wildies. Again I have not seen any like the ones in your pic.

 

Around about 1955 I lifted a known 14lb mirror (one of Leneys stockings) out of the water. It had gone blind and was Razor backed and lean. A month or two later I again lifted this fish from the water and it had deteriorated to something similar to your pic.

 

The large tail seems to me to enforce the idea that the fish have simply not developed properly, and the distinct fork suggest cross breeding with some other species. Definitely barbel looking.

 

 

Certainly not Italian, all the Italians I have seen have been short with small tails, and not wildies either, mouths to big, and wrong proportions.

 

Can't help any further

 

Den

[peter mccue]

I think we could rule out any crossbreeding with Barbel, their respective spawning demands are too different. Plus, any other species that have a reasonable chance of spawning with Carp are always far smaller, resulting in a fish that grows a little bigger than the smaller parent & no more. Those Carp in the picture look far too big & seem to carry no characteristics of another species for any crossbreeding to have gone on.

 

It's a crying shame, but I think we have to say we're looking at unhealthy fish.

[The Gardon Hunter]

Well Den, this really has been a bit of a monkey!! I, like yourself, have been fishing since I was a squeaker. I used to go with my dad whose comment after spending 6 hours in the freezng cold was 'I can't wait till I've had enough!!!' And I fished in all types of waters, in all seasons. I'm not a fairweather fisherman by a long way. Just as a matter of interest, when I was in the UK, the Severn was my favourite river and barbel my favourite fish. It's only the last few years that I've specialised in carp fishing.

 

What these fish put me in mind of was many years ago I had a friend who had an old brickworks pond. I think everybody used to put their unwanted fish in it - there was such a mixture. It contained different sorts of carp (up to about 15lbs), goldfish and a melange of all other fish. One assumes there had been a lot of interbreeding over the years. Anyway to cut a long story short, I caught a 3lb carp one day and it's tail was completely white, thin and about 9" long. Obviously it had bred with a goldfish or one of the other fish but it was healthy and in some odd way, very attractive looking. I suppose you could call it an ornamental type fish.

 

So here were are in 2007 and it's almost deja vu. I'm catching different type carp every now and again. There are the traditional dumpy, deep-bodied carp in the lake and the normal common and crucian carp, along with some beautiful tench.

 

It's funny you should mention wildies - another angler caught one of these 'photo' fish on the same day as me and he said 'what a beautiful looking fish. It reminds me so much of a wildie'. His fish had only had one scale showing - the rest of the body was smooth.

 

Is that a clue?

 

I can only repeat that these fish are fully rounded, with no sharp edges. In fact if they had any more weight on them (at this size) they would burst. In no way are they underweight. And although these are what I would describe as a barbel shape, I know they're not a barbel cross as I'm not sure if there are any barbel in France - certainly they're not in this area.

 

I know I've said it before but in real life these fish do look good. They fight extremely well - sick unhealthy fish don't look and fight the way these do and to be honest I can't wait to catch the next one. I've enclosed a photo of my favourite spot on the lake - it's the actual place where I caught the fish.

[starlight]

hi gardon hunter, there are plenty of barbel in france, what are your nearest largest rivers?

[The Gardon Hunter]

Hello again starlight,

 

We're in the Deux Sevres, our nearest town is Parthenay so that river is the Thouet but I'm not sure of the source or its route.

 

We've not been in France that long so are not familiar with any of the rivers. If you have any ideas, I'd be interested to know of barbel waters. I'll drag myself away from renovation chores and go barbelling for the day.

[starlight]

Hello again starlight,

 

We're in the Deux Sevres, our nearest town is Parthenay so that river is the Thouet but I'm not sure of the source or its route.

 

We've not been in France that long so are not familiar with any of the rivers. If you have any ideas, I'd be interested to know of barbel waters. I'll drag myself away from renovation chores and go barbelling for the day.

what number dept is that?

[The Gardon Hunter]

It's 79 (Poitou Charentes region - western France) and beautiful with it.....

 

Where abouts are you then?

[starlight]

ah i see you gardon hunter! we are in the cantal 15, a bit further down and central. i do not know your area but there are barbel in most of the larger french rivers i recently had about 12 in a night whilst carp fishing with tiger nuts, that was on the river lot and not good sport on carp tackle. they do grow to double figures and no one really fishes for them, so there is certainly very good barbel fishing to be had here when you find them. i must admit that i do not have the same interest in them here as i had in the uk (spent about 14 years on the kennet) here i have been totally captivated by the river carp!

[AnnaWerner]

I agree that they could just be an "odd breed." As far as blidness goes: Even completely blind Carp often can feed themselves quite well. I've seen photos of Carp that actually have no eyes, but are otherwise perfectly normal "fat 'n' happy" Carp! Mind, these Carp I've seen photos of were not caught in fisheries where anyone ever feeds them - and the photos were not in tabloid newspapers!