Hook-up ratio when wobbling deadbaits

[WayneX2]

I'll start off with a little report with my experiences wobbling the last two days and then put my questions at the end.

 

On Monday I tried wobbling for the first time ever, choosing to fish a stretch of river my club acquired this year that I hadn't fished before. I had heard reports of decent roach along this stretch so planned to work the river with wobbled deadbaits hoping to find the pike which would in turn give me an idea where the roach would be. I only had two hours so didn't spend long in each swim. I only had three takes, all from the same swim, but didn't manage to land anything. The first take followed a cast upstream behind a submerged branch. On the retrieve I felt a knock and struck instantly, but after a second of resistance it was away. I cast out straight away to the same spot and sure enough on the retrieve I felt a knock. I stopped winding and a second later two more gentle knocks were registered on the tip. I lifted into the fish and it was on. I got in up to the surface in the middle of the river where it rolled and spat the bait out. It was only small, maybe two or three pounds but I was annoyed. More casts in that area went untouched.

 

The next take came after working the downstream margin in the same swim. I was working the bait in front of me when I saw a flash! I put it in ten yards downstream and worked my bait back slowly and two yards from the rod tip something hammered into the bait and it was on! Except for the fact it wasn't. Just a few moments later it spat the hooks and nicked my bait and I was left filling the air with expletives. That fish was probably five or six pounds, which for me is still a biggish pike due to the fact I haven't caught a double yet.

 

After that it was fairly quiet apart from landing a submerged branch which had a trace, plug and about twenty feet of line trailing from it and my last cast where I dragged the bottom and caught a lily pad which when coming up through the slightly murky water looked like a 15lb pike because it left a plume of mud behind it. In the low light conditions it looked so much like a big pike gliding through the water I did a double take on it. Although I didn't land anything it was still an enjoyable session. I had some takes on a new method on a new venue and found some likely looking spots for when I return for the roach.

 

I returned the next morning with the plan of catching those lucky fish before moving onto a different stretch in the afternoon on the way home. Obviously things didn't go to plan. I didn't get anything until the last swim on the river, the opposite end to where I had the bites the day before. This swim is on a straight, about 25 feet wide, reeds on the near bank in both directions and some concrete structure slightly upstream on the far bank. I tried upstream, downstream, near margins, far bank and to the structure but nothing. I decided to have one last cast 25 yards downstream. I worked it back about a third of the way when bang, fish on! It stayed deep until I had it front of me about halfway across the river where it came up to the surface. It was a perch! And oh my god was it a big one. Unfortunately as it came to the surface it spat the bait, stayed just under the surface briefly and with a swirl away he went. That perch was 3lb minimum, far exceeding anything I've ever caught before and wasn't a long fish but it was very fat, seeming almost round in shape. It also had very striking markings on it and bright colours. When I reeled my bait back in my roach was L shaped and my bottom treble had twisted around embedding another point in, leaving only one free point. Maybe this is why he got away?

 

One more cast in the swim just to check if he would take again was unsuccessful. I left the swim for 15 mins to walk the bank before returning. I cast downstream along the reeds and worked it back. Nearing my position I raised it to just below the surface and saw a swirl just after it. I couldn't see anything and left the bait stationary below the rod where I couldn't see it due to the dpth of the water. Instantly I felt a bang. My strike was met with resistance but again almost straight away it was gone. I'm guessing it was another (the same one?) perch. By then it was just before 12 so I decided to head to the other river.

 

The next stretch I had fished twice in the past for roach unsuccessfully but never for pike but had been told it was prolific for pike to the extent that fishing with worm was difficult. In the first swim I had a big swirl 2 yards behind my bait but no other activity. How likely is that the pike spotted me and was spooked? Recasting and fishing through where the swirl was produced nothing. A few swims along I had a follow from a pike about 18 inches long.

 

The next swim I had some activity in was an over hanging tree that covered half of the river with a raft at the upstream end. By this time my roach was looking ragged, with its gut burst open which was giving the bait an even better action and maybe scent trail as well? I cast along the raft, let it sink and then retrieved underneath the raft. As my bait came into view I saw a pike following and let it flutter down a bit and the pike grabbed it very gently across the middle and sat there for a couple of seconds doing nothing. I didn't strike because it didn't look like my hooks were in its mouth. It then started to move off towards the far bank still with the roach clamped sideways in its mouth. At this point I struck as when it would have moved further I wouldn't have been able to see what it was doing and I didn't want to risk deep hooking. I played it for 4-5 seconds but then he opened his mouth and my hooks didn't catch and it was pike winning 3-0.

 

Casts along the same line went untouched so I cast downstream along the tree line. Halfway through the retrieve I felt a bit of resistance. It felt exactly like I had pulled through a bit of weed. Imagine my surprise when my bait came into view it was sideways in a pikes mouth which was swimming up stream at the same speed as my retrieve! I stopped winding and the same thing happened as the last pike. It sat there and then moved off towards the far bank. This time when I struck there wasn't even any resistance. I must have pulled it straight out of its mouth somehow. 4-0. It might have been the same fish, they both looked a similar size of around 5-6lb.

 

The last swim I fished was the last available swim on the stretch. On my fifth or so cast I placed a bait downstream along the margins. Again when my bait came into view there was a pike following. I gave it a few twitches and it grabbed it, almost under my feet. The pike headed off for deeper water away from me and I struck. A short battle ensued before it was 5-0. ****. By then it was starting to get dark so it was time to head home thinking of fish lost and forming a battle plan for next time.

 

OK so on to the questions.

 

1. What ratio of takes to fish landed is normal?

 

2. I make my own traces and used size 8 semi barbed trebles. It seems like using bigger hooks would make it more likely for them to catch a hook hold when a pike is trying to spit a bait out. What size do you guys use/recommend? I use roach of 5-6 inches if that matters.

 

3. I was putting the top treble through the lips and second treble either in the flank or just behind the dorsal fin. Is this the best hooking arrangement?

 

4. When do you strike? When I could see what the pike was I doing I was going to wait until the bait was turned and strike at exactly the moment the bait was turned, but when you can't see what is happening I was striking instantly as I don't want to risk deep hooking. From my descriptions does it seem like I was striking at the correct time?

 

5. Are pike takes while wobbling always so gentle? If I hadn't seen it happen I wouldn't have known about some of the takes.

 

6. Are perch captures while wobbling a regular occurrence?

 

7. Is it worth continuing with a ragged bait like I did? By the time I had the second take on it its lower ribcage was visible, most of its tail was gone and flesh was hanging off of it. It almost looked like a mackeral flapper used for conger. In the water it was giving a really good action off though and surely it was emitting a lot of scent.

 

8. Any other tips for a wobbling novice?

 

Thanks everyone

[Dick Dastardly]

Wayne,when I wobble a bait I always do so ver slowly.Thats the main reason I use the method.As such I treat most takes the same as a deadbait pick up.I loose very few.

 

Onlytime I "strike" imediately is if its on a very rare occaision that Im moving the bait fast.These I seem to miss more of.

 

As for the rest of your questions I tend to agree with the decissions youve all ready made as regards bait size and presentation etc.

 

Take a look at the wobbling thread we had recently.

[Anderoo]

Hi Wayne, that all sounds very frustrating But at least you're getting takes and have mastered a new method. Exciting isn't it!

 

My first thought is that your hooks aren't sharp enough. Could that be the reason? I certainly wouldn't expect to lose that many. In fact, losing pike when wobbling is quite unusual.

 

The only other thing I can think of is, how are you 'striking'? An effective 'strike' when piking is to wind down to the fish and keep winding until you can't wind any more, then pull steadily into the weight of the fish. A sharp strike like you'd do when float fishing for roach can pull the bait out of a pike's mouth.

 

As for your questions:

 

1. What ratio of takes to fish landed is normal?

Most of them, usually.

 

2. I make my own traces and used size 8 semi barbed trebles. It seems like using bigger hooks would make it more likely for them to catch a hook hold when a pike is trying to spit a bait out. What size do you guys use/recommend? I use roach of 5-6 inches if that matters.

I'd use the same, either 8s or 6s, semi-barbed.

 

3. I was putting the top treble through the lips and second treble either in the flank or just behind the dorsal fin. Is this the best hooking arrangement?

Yes, that's what I do too.

 

4. When do you strike? When I could see what the pike was I doing I was going to wait until the bait was turned and strike at exactly the moment the bait was turned, but when you can't see what is happening I was striking instantly as I don't want to risk deep hooking. From my descriptions does it seem like I was striking at the correct time?

If the bait (and therefore at least 1 set of hooks) is in the pike's mouth, you should be OK to strike. If you can see the pike with the bait in its mouth, you can wait until it takes the whole thing into its mouth if you like, but they can swallow a bait quickly so be careful.

 

5. Are pike takes while wobbling always so gentle? If I hadn't seen it happen I wouldn't have known about some of the takes.

Yes, nearly all takes are gentle but you get used to 'feeling' for them. As long as you're in contact with the bait you'll feel that something is different, usually knocking on the rod tip.

 

6. Are perch captures while wobbling a regular occurrence?

Apparently not! I asked the same question on the long wobbling thread recently. I've never had one.

 

7. Is it worth continuing with a ragged bait like I did? By the time I had the second take on it its lower ribcage was visible, most of its tail was gone and flesh was hanging off of it. It almost looked like a mackeral flapper used for conger. In the water it was giving a really good action off though and surely it was emitting a lot of scent.

If you're getting takes and it's staying on the hooks, sure!

 

8. Any other tips for a wobbling novice?

Have a look at the recent long wobbling thread here: http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/forums/Wobblin...bling+deadbaits. Lots of useful stuff!

 

Also, if you can, come along to the 'Wobblethon' we're having in February in Norfolk. There's a 'pinned' topic at the top of the page

[Chris Bishop]

Step up the hook size and switch to barbed.

 

I'd go for fours or better-still twos.

 

Drennan Extra-Strong have quite small barbs but seem to stay in once you nail a fish. They don't do them in twos, so I'd go for a good round bend like Owners.

 

If you're tapping the bait along slowly, watch the line as it slackens after each twitch with the rod at a slight angle to the water.

 

If the line tightens, swing the rod towards the fish for a foot or so, let the line tighten and bend into it. You should hook most of them doing this.

 

If it slackens (fish comes towards you...), just start reeling in the slack until you feel the fish and bend into it.

 

If one comes in and and you see it take it at the end of the retrieve, let it turn and hit it as it moves away from you.

 

I'd reckon to hit most of them when I used to wobble baits.

[The Flying Tench]

Wayne, thanks for such an interesting write-up, and welcome to AN.

 

The other anglers who have replied are more experienced wobblers than me, so I will keep my reply brief. My experience is that I normally hook them properly when wobbling, but there have been a couple of days when I missed them all like you! It was really strange and frustrating.

 

Normally I don't see the take, it just feels like I've hooked the bottom for a moment, and then there's a tug tug. I hardly strike at all except for instinctively pulling against the fish.

 

But I had a session a year ago when I had 5 jacks (no more than 3 lbs) in half an hour, and l lost them all! For most of them, like you, I saw the take, saw the bait horizontally in the pike's mouth, and wondered when to strike. I can't help thinking that if I had kept my eyes shut and struck when I felt resistance (like normal) I'd have had them! Though, of course, another factor in the equation could be that, since I could see them, they could see me!

 

Anyone, condolences on missing the 3 lb perch, but congratulations on a couple of very interesting sessions. And let us know if you get the roach!

[WayneX2]

Thanks for the welcome guys.

 

Anderoo, it certainly has been frustrating but it has also been very interesting seeing the pikes reactions to my bait and the takes up close just a few feet away. It was something that I hadn't seen before.

 

It definitely wasn't anything to do with hook sharpness. It was a brand new trace/hooks as my fingers can attest to! Every time I was baiting up I managed to prick myself multiple times.

 

I think the way I was striking wasn't optimal from what you guys have written, hopefully I'll be able to get out in the next few days and give it another try.

 

Thanks for the link to that other thread, it has cleared up some things in my head a bit and from your resonses it seems like I'm on the right track but just need to get some more experience.

 

I shall look for the 'wobblethon' thread in a moment.

 

Thanks again for your replies.

[Leon Roskilly]

I really can't stress too much how important it is to carry around a hook sharpener and to use it frequently.

 

Pike have pretty bony mouths, and a hook point that isn't needle sharp will simply slide across and out of the mouth.

 

Many brands of hook out of the packet are simply not sharp enough for the job.

 

There's no need for a 'strike', simply pulling the hooks in by applying pressure will set the hooks if they are sharp enough, and encounter the right spot in a pike's mouth.

 

(try holding something attached to the line and getting your mate to strike hard, you'll be amazed at how little force of a 'strike' is actually transmitted to the business end)

 

A quick test for sharpness is to pull the hook point across a fingernail (pricking your fingers is not a good indication, flesh is very much softer than most parts inside a pike's mouth).

 

If it digs in, it's good.

 

If it simply slides across, that is exactly what it will do when it encounters a pike's bony mouth.

 

It is getting that initial micro-metre of penetration that is so important.

 

Once the needle sharp point digs in, it's likely to dig deeper with pressure until a firm hook-hold is achieved.

 

If it simply slides without the point digging in, it's not going to be a hook-up.

 

Out of the packet, and when first attached, after every take, after every contact with a snag or a bump along the bottom, or after an hour or so's use, check the sharpness and if any doubt, sharpen it.

 

You'll be amazed at how the hook-up ratio improves

 

(Oh! and barbless, or hooks with their barbs crushed down, will penetrate so much easier than fully barbed hooks, try pulling them through a piece of chamois leather and you will see what I mean)

Edited December 21, 2007 by Leon Roskilly

[Dick Dastardly]

Too right Leon its amazing how many anglers dont apreciate what a sharp hook is.I was amazed recently when the subject was brought up on the PAC forum how few bothered sharpening hooks and even more amazed at how many thought it unecessary!

[Anderoo]

The last time I went perch fishing I had a dabble with a spoon because nothing was happening on the bait rods (too cold for them), and a big perch (it could have even been a huge perch!) had a swipe at it under my feet but wasn't hooked. The treble was far from sharp and so I probably lost that fish because of my laziness in not changing it.

 

Can anyone recommend a good hook sharpener please?

Edited December 21, 2007 by Anderoo

[Kappa]

The last time I went perch fishing I had a dabble with a spoon because nothing was happening on the bait rods (too cold for them), and a big perch (it could have even been a huge perch!) had a swipe at it under my feet but wasn't hooked. The treble was far from sharp and so I probably lost that fish because of my laziness in not changing it.

 

Can anyone recommend a good hook sharpener please?

 

Not to rub it in at all but it looked very big to me

 

Rich