Ok.. what do you think??

[Jim Roper]

If people use charts and measurements to assess the weight of their catches before returning them, and then get pooh-poohed like they have in this thread, perhaps they will start bringing them ashore to be weighed DEAD!!

 

Rather different to what you all want, I suspect.

 

Does it honestly matter how big the darned thing was?

 

Jim Roper

 

http://www.anglingforums.co.uk

http://www.searchlineuk.co.uk/FishList.htm

[ShoreDemon]

Firstly, this is not a defence of SA or their actions but I think it might be worth remembering that the skate was 'accidentally' hooked and not the intended target, which does happen in sea angling, particularly from a boat. The boat was small for such a catch and they probably panicked a bit (as most non-skate anglers would when seeing such a fish) and went a bit crazy with the gaff. Since the boat would be used mainly for pollack/cod/ray (as most boats in Ireland are) I'd imagine they employ a barbed gaff because they keep most/all of their catch of 'smaller' species. I'm not excusing the mistreatment of skate but more so looking upon it as dodgy handling of an unusual situation. The sensationalism is to sell mags and bangs of Prest, the new writer/interviewer. Don't really like his (or Russ's) 'high octane' type style, seems more flash car journalism than angling?

 

Also, fish handling and catch-and-release in sea angling in Ireland is many miles behind that in the UK. Again, not excusable but must be accounted for. Social and cultural factors do play a role in attitudes within angling.

 

Feel free to aim your arrows at my remarks but I don't think the harm was intentional and if the SA staff had the proper boat, crew and equipment I'm sure it would have been handled better. But by all means let them know your views, the mag could do with some major improvements.

 

Neil.

[Alan Taylor]

Elton:

Guys,

 

I can see where your sentiments stem from, but....

 

By saying that you won't buy a mag again, you're switching off from it.

 

Even if you chose not to buy the mag, wouldn't a few polite, well informed letters have more effect?

OK Elton, lets say I am on the editorial staff of a Rally car magazine that you contribute to. I know nothing about rally cars but write an article that is so much rubbish. You write in to complain, do you really think that I would publish your letter slagging me off. Get real.

 

If you want an article done on Skate fishing, contact Davy Holt. If I wanted to know about rally cars I would contact you.

 

I have not seen the offending article yet but if you go to the link provided by Davy B (thanks) to total-fishing you may change your tune.

 

Davy PROVED to me that the charts from the Kelvingrove museum in Glasgow are accurate to within 5lbs on a moving boat. Re read Leviathans from the deep. I just can't understand why ALL CHARTER BOATS that fish for Common Skate don't use these readily available charts, there would be no dispute then over weights as long as the fish were measured correctly :mad:

 

As for Sea Angler magazine, I enjoy reading it as a rule but have found that they don't get an expert on the species (as in this case) but a NAME.

I also found the staff at Sea Angler to be very helpfull when I needed some further information on a topic.

 

Funny coincidence that there Skate article came out 2 months after my 6 page article in the Dutch/Belgium equivalent sea fishing magazine

 

Thats off my chest, rant over.

ps I will email this topic to Sea Angler, Davy B can you do the same from total-fishing

[SandTiger]

Will glady do so - Can you email me the address you used so that it ends up before the same person.

[Davy Holt]

Jim Roper:

If people use charts and measurements to assess the weight of their catches before returning them, and then get pooh-poohed like they have in this thread, perhaps they will start bringing them ashore to be weighed DEAD!!

 

Rather different to what you all want, I suspect.

 

Does it honestly matter how big the darned thing was?

Ok can I just say the chart is there as a guide to help estimate the weight of a skate without bringing it ashore. Now every year there is the odd skate caught that is off the scale on the charts, everytime bar twice when this has happend the angler has contacted the Museum, Bill Little or myself to get an accurate estimate of the fishes weight.. BEFORE GOING PUBLIC!!. Not so this year first we have the 238lber caught from an Oban based charter boat which so happens to have the dimentions of a 203lber.. what's 35lb between friends. WE now have this "record skate" firstly it wasn't hooked with the gear that landed it so it aint a "record" so why say so??? the wingspan given is for a good conditioned fish of 208lb, that fish is not in good condition so you would be lucky if it reached 200lb.

[Davy Holt]

Neil Foley:

Firstly, this is not a defence of SA or their actions but I think it might be worth remembering that the skate was 'accidentally' hooked and not the intended target, which does happen in sea angling, particularly from a boat.

Neil.

Hiya Neil,

 

You make a few good points in your post, but if you look at the photo of the fish still in the water you can clearly see a heavy mono trace coming out from under the skate, which according to the artical was attached to Alans other rod. They may not have been targeting skate but they were after bigger than average fish also that fact that they just happend to have tags with them........

 

[ 23. November 2002, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: Davy Holt ]

[Jim Roper]

Davy Holt:

the wingspan given is for a good conditioned fish of 208lb, that fish is not in good condition so you would be lucky if it reached 200lb.

So the charts are not accurate in every case!

 

What percentage can the variation be for good or poor condition fish?

 

If any claim for a weight is so open to challenge on grounds of someone assessing the condition from a photograph (it appears), then a more accurate way of weight assessment must be devized to stop people bringing the fish ashore to be weighed properly.

 

How were these charts created if the fish were not brought ashore or in some way weighed accurately at sea before being returned.

 

If someone wants to claim a record, it seems that the only way is to bring the fish ashore to appease, but not please, the doubters.

 

In the interests of the fish, I think it is best for people not to make comments each time a big fish is caught.

 

Whose record is at stake anyway???

 

Jim Roper

 

http://www.searchlineuk.co.uk/FishList.htm

http://www.anglingforums.co.uk

 

[ 08. June 2003, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: Jim Roper ]

[Davy Holt]

Originally posted by Jim Roper:

So the charts are not accurate in every case!

 

How can they be??? we are talking about living animals that feed and grow to suit themselves. The charts are accurate to within 5%, most of the time it is even less. Like every other formula for estimating fish weights there will be a certain amount of fish that dont conform to the formula and no matter how much data you have you will never get 100% accuracy in any weight estimation formula.

 

 

What percentage can the variation be for good or poor condition fish?

 

 

simple.. How long is a piece of string???

 

it could be 2lb or even up as much as 40lb

 

If any claim for a weight is so open to challenge on grounds of someone assessing the condition from a photograph (it appears), then a more accurate way of weight assessment must be devized to stop people bringing the fish ashore to be weighed properly.

 

If they had used the charts (which is obvious they didn't) to estimate the weight of the fish there wouldn't have been a issue with it. They would have had a figure of about 206lb, which I personaly wouldn't have argued with and I dont think anyone else that have seen large skate would have either.

But the fact is in last months issue the fish was 130lb this month it is now 230lb and with this change in weight comes scrutiny. Also the fact that no one in the boat had seen a Common skate more than 180lb how can they accuratly give an estimate of what the fish weighed??

 

 

How were these charts created if the fish were not brought ashore or in some way weighed accurately at sea before being returned.

 

They were created from the data collected from many sources but mainly by the tagging programme of fish weighed at sea and on land (alive).

 

If someone wants to claim a record, it seems that the only way is to bring the fish ashore to appease, but not please, the doubters.

 

Erm the fish that actually holds the skate record was weighed on the boat and returned to the water without ever being brought ashore. Unlike this 230lber and the 238lber the measurements actually corresponded to the given weight not like the above fish where the measurements they gave were for a fish much smaller than has been claimed.

 

 

In the interests of the fish, I think it is best for people not to make comments each time a big fish is caught.

 

Why not?? by doing what they did they are advertising that it is OK for firstly, to just make up a weight and everyone will accept it, all in the name of creative journalisim and advertising. Secondly, how can it do the fish any good to have every angler who thinks that they can catch big fish at this place go out and treat the fish with the lack of respect or experience that happened in this case.

 

Whose record is at stake anyway???

 

Erm Mr R. Banks that was fishing aboard the "Laurenca" fishing out from Tobermory back in 1986 who fairly caught and landed a Common skate of 227lb.

 

I'm quite sure he would be happy to lose his record fish status to a fish that doesnt come close to his fish.

 

Anyway it is not the record that is at stake or the issue here, the fish cannot break the record it wasn't weighed or caught by fair means. That is why all Skate anglers do not even try or bother with records the chart is designed for the tagging and conservation of the fish not for "claiming records"

 

[ 24. November 2002, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: Davy Holt ]

[Jim Roper]

Davy Holt:

Erm the fish that actually holds the skate record was weighed on the boat and returned to the water without ever being brought ashore.

So there is an accepted way of accurately weighing a fish at sea but the weight will only be beyond doubt if the weight coresponds with the charts.

 

How long do skate live out of water?

 

One night in 1969 I caught a cod that weighed exactly twenty pounds. At the same time, another chap 30 yards away pulled one in weighing eighteen and three quarters. His fish was 5 inches longer than mine but the condition was obviously different.

It is this incident that prompted my scepticism of the charts' accuracy.

 

On the subject of advertizing a venue. If you don't want people going to the Sound of Mull trying to catch big skate, why tell everybody about it?

 

Sorry Davy, but in both these cases, you have come across as a 'Nobody catches bigger Skate than me' chap. Perhaps that is a wrong perception but in these days, perception is everything, especially in politics.

 

I'm sure that, just like Spasor's, your heart is in the right place.

 

Jim Roper

 

http://www.anglingforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=189

[Davy Holt]

Originally posted by Jim Roper:

 

How long do skate live out of water?

 

probably the same time as any other ray, as I have not kept any out of the water long enough to find out and I have no intention of ever doing that. There is no reason to keep a skate out of the water for more than 3 minutes, in that time they can quite easily be unhooked, weighed, measured and photographed.

 

 

On the subject of advertizing a venue. If you don't want people going to the Sound of Mull trying to catch big skate, why tell everybody about it?

 

I've never once said I didn't want anyone going to the Sound and catching skate, infact it is the complete opposite, there wouldn't be much point in running a tagging programe if there is no one else there to re capture and verifi the details of the fish.

 

Sorry Davy, but in both these cases, you have come across as a 'Nobody catches bigger Skate than me' chap. Perhaps that is a wrong perception but in these days, perception is everything, especially in politics.

 

Well as it stands you dont have a very good track record with me and perception, remember.. you thought I was a charter skipper.

Well again you are wrong and anyone that knows me will tell you the same, I'm always the first to give credit where credit is due.

 

 

I'm sure that, just like Spasor's, your heart is in the right place.

 

yup it is.... right here in my chest.