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An Alliance Between Anglers And Commercials?


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#1 stavey

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Posted 28 September 2005 - 07:10 PM

Is this a possibility? Benifits for?and against? your answers please warts and all.

I personally think it is possible given a chance and if something like an umbrella group could be set up maybe it might help with the putting over each others points in a more constructive way?

resources/louder voice/more members/more bums on seats on important committees ie sfc's/more public backing (even though most public view us as one anyway) etc, is just a few examples of why it would be worthwhile settleing the differences and maybe such an alliance could just do that????
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#2 ColinW

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Posted 28 September 2005 - 07:54 PM

with apologies to the two folks who responded to this non-contributory diatribe, I'm removing this remark and their responses in hopes that an important question can get some decent discussion.

Pro, con, your choice but with some content please.

Newt


[ 28. September 2005, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: Newt ]

#3 sam-cox

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Posted 28 September 2005 - 11:48 PM

This would be a good thing, but it will never happen as very little trust exsists between the two parties.
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#4 stavey

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 12:08 AM

i might be wrong here sam but i think you have done a bit of commecial netting? so you will probably have a better idea as to how all this mistrust started and why.
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#5 Jaffa

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 12:22 AM

I could see it happening on a local level, but any larger than that and you reach the difficulty that commercial fishermen from different parts of the country can't agree or understand each other ( same goes for anglers from what ive seen on these forums).

Fwiw, over the longer term, i think it will happen, and that the Fishing News could be in at the center of it! :D :P

Thinking being that there are so many interests shared by the two sectors (and therefore so much advertising revenue that hits same mark) I'll lay a wee bet on it becoming the UKs crossing point. On the other hand I also bet on the plastic logs becoming popular :P :D
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#6 Brian Carragher

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 12:32 AM

Nice to see you've changed your stance a little Stavey as yours used to be a view that I disagreed with most of the time. Commercial fishermen come in for a lot of stick on this site sometimes its deserved but mostly it doesnt and usually comes from uninformed scources expressed as fact when in reality it should be classed as fiction.
The real problem in this debate is not commercial fishermen and their catch rates or species that they target but the rules that they have to operate in. As mentioned on another thread if boats don't make their quota in one year then they lose it the following year,absolutly crazy and I cant think of anyone who would support that system continuing. Surely everyone can agree on that.
Some of the operating conditions that boats have to work to need changing,how any official in DEFRA can support the discard system beats me and I know for sure that commercial fishermen cry with dispair when they have to shovel good fish , cod in the main,over the side.Dead fish shovelled back over the side dont pay any bills and dont ever reproduce any more. For a start there are a couple of issues that both sides can agree on.
Its a bit like being at work and your foreman or supervisor instructs you to do a job in a certain way and if you inform them that will result in damage or an incorrect job would you be right in doing it your own way or do you have to follow the rules as relayed to you by someone in authority. Thats what happens in the fishing industry even though they dont like the rules they still have to operate within them.
As for can the two sides ever come together and work for a common good I think it can happen. It certainly does in the area that I come from with a good exchange of information both ways. If people want to see that replicated in other areas then the crap thats directed at the commercial sector has to stop,I dont see the vitriol shown to the commercial sector thrown back at anglers from commercials. It looks like one way traffic as far as mud slinging goes.
There are many in the commercial sector who would support an increase in the mls of bass for instance,360mm being really too small for the good of the species. Any increase in mls would cause hardship in the short term but would reap the rewards in latter years with an increased stock and the chance of a couple of spawnings from them before they were caught. A similar example is the increase in the lobster stock where the mls was increased over a period of time resulting in more spawning lobsters for everyone and now lobster stocks are healthier now than they have been for 30 years
Remember commercial fishermen arent stupid, they realise that some action will have to be taken to preserve stocks and guarantee some future for the industry.

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 01:59 AM

Stavey.
Firstly well done for doing something positive, how ever controversial it may seam to some who only want to use this forum to slag off commercial fishermen. Why they use this forum, when surly they know where the fish quays are amazes me. But we won’t go there.
Brian you said to stavey “nice to see you’ve changed your stance a little.
The forum must be a success if it can bring people together in there beliefs and different information that they can share and learn from.
I am new to this forum and have been amazed reading through the different threads and learning so much from them.
It has opened my eyes to the passion and energy that can be put into a recreational pass time and the enthusiasm to protect it for them selves and the future generations that hopefully will have the same passion.
I am off to sea tonight stavey (some lovely gales to make it more interesting) but look forward to see how your thread goes and hope to make some useful contributions when I return

#8 stavey

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 02:45 AM

Great some positive feecback, i am not going to comment on the first two that was removed for good reasons only to say that sort of stuff was expected and no doubt there will be some more(perhaps i should not have said warts and all)never mind.

Brian its never to late to change track a little i think its all part of learning and i dont mind that, some do" and i also think it is a good thing in this rapid changing world today.(from what i saw on the beeb tonight about how fast the artic ice cap is melting now" our issues about fish may well be insignificant, scary)

From what i have found there is a huge waste in our very precious resource, "fish" from both sides" from the commercials (not all there fault) highlighted by brian with the discard issue to
Sea anglers taking stones of mature cod off the wrecks and participating in pirk ripping out many a shoal of bass to supplement the summers income.

I think its time to stop pointing the finger we are both responsible whether told by law or not for atleast some of the demise and we should both start to be a little resposible for the future, if we have one?
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#9 sam-cox

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 02:45 AM

Stavey,
First I think any trust that angler had for commercial fisherman started to wain in around 1976.At this time anglers in my area were enjoying some truley amazing catches of large bass, thornback rays, tope & smoothounds both from the shore and from boats.
At the same time commercial fisherman started using monofilerment gill netts, then over the next few years the anglers catches started to full.
Commercial fisherman will not trust anglers, most see them as trying to destroy their lively hood. They also find them selves competeing with angler when trying to sell their catch.
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#10 stavey

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 02:54 AM

Sorry forgot to ad some in the following paragraph ; Sea anglers taking stones of mature cod off the wrecks and some participating in pirk ripping out many a shoal of bass to supplement the summers income.
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