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Big bream


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#11 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 09:57 PM

What do you usually find with tench and bream? In my limited bream experience I've often found bream and tench in similar areas except the bream seem to feed harder overnight! I guess I'm asking if you fished a water with a reasonable head of tench would you expect to catch bream if the tench aren't feeding in your swim?

Rich


Yes is the general answer.Ive found it common to catch the occaisional (usually big) tench when a bream shoal is feeding heavily but rare to catch a big bream when a large shoal/group of tench are feeding.

Never come across it on "big" bream waters though as the numbers are normally so low. Winghams interesting though as from the little experience and information Ive got they do seem to feed at quite different times (once again generalising)
And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

#12 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 10:05 PM

I have often thought about experimenting with flavoured bread or even special "bread" made in a bread machine at home.

The only things I would suggest might bear thinking about is the use of artifical maggots/corn (one or two on a hook to counterbalance it) and the inclusion of fishmeal to groundbaits for the bream. They love the stuff and I would include either fishmeal itself to groundbait or pellets to spod mixes.

One final thought and I am aware that some may disagree but I wouldn't include hemp in groundbait for bream. Tench , yes but bream, no. I have never seen regurgitated or excreted hemp in a keep net of bream. I will now go and stand by for the barrage of dissenting voices!! :D

Regards,
Steve C.


Steve, Ive played around with flavoured bread and never really found it any improvement over standard stuff. I did have some made up with a stickier consistancy (used to be a bakers in Lydd that made it for me) I dont know how it was done but it also tasted a lot sweeter than "normal" bread.Most underated of both bream and tench baits IMO.

I always critically balance any hook that I use over big beds of bait for any species as I believe it increases the chance of the hook ending up in the fishs mouth regardless of whether the fish "intentionally targeted" the specific piece of bait on your hook or not!

Totally agree about the inclusion of fish meals/pellets in the feed and for bream forgetting hemp!
And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

#13 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 10:12 PM

Has anyone got any thoughts on why we have waters like this? What i mean is Why have they not bred and these places turned into skimmer city? What makes a water a big bream water?



The "big question"!

From the examples of such waters Ive fished my conclussion has to be that its simply down to predation or lack of fry recruitment. The lack of numbers of fish competing for the food (regardless of how rich the water is) allowing the few to grow so big.Its also important that these conditions are available for the greater majority of the fish's life.

I suppose there must be an element of good genetic inheritance though.

Sounds over simplified but I really believe its as simple as that.
And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

#14 wyeknot

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 10:49 PM

Never come across it on "big" bream waters though as the numbers are normally so low. Winghams interesting though as from the little experience and information Ive got they do seem to feed at quite different times (once again generalising)

You're right, Budgie, the big bream at Wingham are definitely night feeder but as they seem to only swim around in small groups the approach has to be different from the big beds of bait approach. You are not looking to keep 100-200, 5 to 6lb fish interested. You're looking at half-a-dozen 15 to 20lb fish which, I believe, do not conform to the usual bream habit of following regular patrol routes and stopping to gorge themselves. I think that really big bream are more randomly nomadic and may even be put off by big beds of bait.
On another lake, I have had 6-8lb bream feeding on spod spill just in front of me and then watched as 4 much, much bigger bream come along and instead of joining in, just stand off and let the small fish feed. These small (!) bream then cleaned up and moved off. The big bream then sauntered off after them. It makes you wonder how these bigger fish got to the size they were!
Having said that big bream don't abide by the usual rules by following regular patrol routes they do still feed in similar situations. I think they still avoid weed and prefer flatish, clean areas such as the tops of bars. My approach to big bream is to locate the sort of areas that I think they will feed in and adopt guerilla tactics! In other words, look to ambush the small groups and hopefully pick off one fish from the group before moving on.

Wingham isn't unique, it's just a big bream water that is not heavily fished so it doesn't respond to the usual tactics. You have to think about your fishing and that is one of the reasons I love it.

Steve C.

#15 poledark

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 11:30 PM

It would be quite helpful to get some idea of just how heavily Wingham is fished. Any large water with a low stock and even lower fishing pressure, will appear hard. Even on pressured waters with a reasonable head of double figure bream and tench, the catches can (and often are) very low.

I get the impression from my dog walking, and Steves comments, that the place is empty most of the time, or at best, only a couple of anglers fishing.

Hardly condusive to come to many conclusions about methods and movements. After all, it is quite possible that you can be using the right bait, right rig, in the right swim, but the fish aren't feeding....or any other permutation you can imagine.

Den

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#16 lutra

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 11:48 PM

The "big question"!

From the examples of such waters Ive fished my conclussion has to be that its simply down to predation or lack of fry recruitment. The lack of numbers of fish competing for the food (regardless of how rich the water is) allowing the few to grow so big.Its also important that these conditions are available for the greater majority of the fish's life.

I suppose there must be an element of good genetic inheritance though.

Sounds over simplified but I really believe its as simple as that.


Bream have to be one of the oddest species Ive come across when it come breeding. In a lot of waters Ive fished they seem to go for years just getting bigger, then with no warning you go one year and the place is skimmer city. The size of the bream doesnt seem to come it and Ive always found it hard to see what triggers it. It happened in Ireland, one minute there was 4lb bream every where we went and then 12 month later there was nothing but skimmers. Fished Mill loch near Castle loch last back end, a water that had a few nice bream (to 13lb), but shock horror it was black with skimmers and not a bream in sight. Castle loch has to be an odd water to, became legendary as a bag up water in the seventies and early eighties, full to over flowing with small bream. Then the owner allowed the bream to be netted for pig food and the fishing just died as it became a very hard water. Hardly fished for the next ten years and most anglers that did were those that knew of or had heard of the good old days and went away with long faces. Now in my mind the bream that were left with 200 acres of water to themselves should have bred and replaced the fish that were netted. Especially as the water seemed to have a good track record of bream breeding in it, but they never have. Will i go one year to find its skimmer city again? Does it or will it happen like this on your southern gravel pits?
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#17 lutra

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 12:57 AM

You're right, Budgie, the big bream at Wingham are definitely night feeder but as they seem to only swim around in small groups the approach has to be different from the big beds of bait approach. You are not looking to keep 100-200, 5 to 6lb fish interested. You're looking at half-a-dozen 15 to 20lb fish which, I believe, do not conform to the usual bream habit of following regular patrol routes and stopping to gorge themselves. I think that really big bream are more randomly nomadic and may even be put off by big beds of bait.
On another lake, I have had 6-8lb bream feeding on spod spill just in front of me and then watched as 4 much, much bigger bream come along and instead of joining in, just stand off and let the small fish feed. These small (!) bream then cleaned up and moved off. The big bream then sauntered off after them. It makes you wonder how these bigger fish got to the size they were!
Having said that big bream don't abide by the usual rules by following regular patrol routes they do still feed in similar situations. I think they still avoid weed and prefer flatish, clean areas such as the tops of bars. My approach to big bream is to locate the sort of areas that I think they will feed in and adopt guerilla tactics! In other words, look to ambush the small groups and hopefully pick off one fish from the group before moving on.

Wingham isn't unique, it's just a big bream water that is not heavily fished so it doesn't respond to the usual tactics. You have to think about your fishing and that is one of the reasons I love it.

Steve C.


Very interesting post that Steve, and certainly the point about bigger bream standing off is one that rings true with my fishing up on Castle loch. On a number of trips me and a mate have spent all day catching bream in the 9-10lb bracket and right at the end when things start to slow down you get 1 or 2 bigger ones, i remember one trip taking 3 fish over the Scottish record in the last half hour of play having spent all day catching fish.
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#18 Kappa

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 10:49 AM

After all, it is quite possible that you can be using the right bait, right rig, in the right swim, but the fish aren't feeding....or any other permutation you can imagine.


Or the wrong part of the swim, last year I fished 3 rods at Wingham, one rod had the bream and some tench another had just tench and the third had one eel! If I'd be concentrating on the margins I'd have caught one eel all weekend!

Rich

#19 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 11:30 AM

Any large water with a low stock and even lower fishing pressure, will appear hard. Even on pressured waters with a reasonable head of double figure bream and tench, the catches can (and often are) very low.


Hardly condusive to come to many conclusions about methods and movements. After all, it is quite possible that you can be using the right bait, right rig, in the right swim, but the fish aren't feeding....or any other permutation you can imagine.

Den



So so true Den.
And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

#20 poledark

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 02:23 PM

If I'd be concentrating on the margins I'd have caught one eel all weekend!


Tell me about it :)

If I am lucky enough to get back this year, then I will do things differently.....not sure what though :)

Den

"When through the woods and forest glades I wanderAnd hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees;When I look down from lofty mountain grandeur,And hear the brook, and feel the breeze;and see the waves crash on the shore,Then sings my soul.................. 

for all you Spodders.       https://youtu.be/XYxsY-FbSic