Big bream

[Anderoo]

Coming back to baiting, and to repeat something Budgie said earlier, what seems best is a nice 'dusting' of groundbait over your spots. Easy to do from a boat but much harder from the bank, as balls of groundbait (if you want them to go any distance) just end up dotted around the swim in little separate piles. However, you can do it with a spod. I'm sure this will be useful for other species too.

 

Mix up groundbait so it's nice and airy and fluffy and pour it into a spod (it has to be one of the spods with holes in, this won't work with a solid one). Gently tap the top so stop it flying out on the cast, and cast it to wherever you want it. It pours out, creates a lovely cloud and eventually settles on the bottom over a relatively wide area, achieving that 'dusting' effect. A couple of dozen spod fulls covers a good area, loads of attraction. How much actual food you put in is up to you. Try it in the margin, it's really impressive. Drop a ball of groundbait in next to it for comparison.

 

Next thing - has anyone used only fake baits on the hair/hook for bream? If so, that would solve a real problem. I've used them for tench this season and had some great results, but tench are sight feeders and I'm sure that's why they've done well. Although I suppose you could make a fake bait smell by soaking it in flavouring?

 

I really rate fake baits, especially where there are nuisance fish. (Fake maggots for tench has meant I haven't had any small perch at all.) Also, they're the easiest thing to critically balance, which is what I want.

 

Another question - what do people think about undertow and bream feeding? I have an unproven theory (kind of backed up by some circumstantial evidence) rattling around my addled brain that they don't like feeding in strong undertow. If that's the case, it would help massively with swim selection, which is always the main problem and where most of the luck seems to come in.

[Dick Dastardly]

Have played with spodded groundbait since we spoke and yes it does give the desired result.A bit of good thinking from you there mate as I just sat back and lamented not being able to bait up by boat! (all though this may change soon).

 

Re artificial baits I just dont know.My only real experience with such is the "hemp" rig I used while carping.Unfortunately the water contained no bream so dont know if they would have picked it up or not.That said with the amount of hemp I was using I think a bare hook would have worked just as well.Bream just dont like hemp though.Might be worth asking on the carp forums if carpers get bream "trouble" on plastic corn etc?

 

As for the undertow I would say definately not. On a couple of the pits Ive fished big undertows/currents caused by strong winds normally turn the fish off.We all know how strong they can be on one water by the underwater tench footage we saw.

 

The artificial bait thing could be a real turning point as Ive stuck (so far) with real baits and just been eeled and small perched out every session. Im definately going to try one rod with maggot feeder and just two artificial maggots on.After your tench catchs and my brothers carp its got to be worth a go.

[Kappa]

Have played with spodded groundbait since we spoke and yes it does give the desired result.A bit of good thinking from you there mate as I just sat back and lamented not being able to bait up by boat! (all though this may change soon).

 

Re artificial baits I just dont know.My only real experience with such is the "hemp" rig I used while carping.Unfortunately the water contained no bream so dont know if they would have picked it up or not.That said with the amount of hemp I was using I think a bare hook would have worked just as well.Bream just dont like hemp though.Might be worth asking on the carp forums if carpers get bream "trouble" on plastic corn etc?

 

As for the undertow I would say definately not. On a couple of the pits Ive fished big undertows/currents caused by strong winds normally turn the fish off.We all know how strong they can be on one water by the underwater tench footage we saw.

 

The artificial bait thing could be a real turning point as Ive stuck (so far) with real baits and just been eeled and small perched out every session. Im definately going to try one rod with maggot feeder and just two artificial maggots on.After your tench catchs and my brothers carp its got to be worth a go.

 

Didn't the current record get caught on fake maize? I just can't get my head around fake baits! Don't get me wrong I use them all the time but I just can't bring myself to use one by itself with no 'natural' bait.

 

Rich

[Dick Dastardly]

Didn't the current record get caught on fake maize? I just can't get my head around fake baits! Don't get me wrong I use them all the time but I just can't bring myself to use one by itself with no 'natural' bait.

 

Rich

 

Dont know mate.I have the same mental hang up as you re fake baits.Ok when used to counter balance/pop up but on its own its too scarey! Like I said though both the Andrews have proved it works for Tench and Carp so going to have to try and get my head around it! Not that I will catch any less if it doesnt work!!

[gozzer]

Just caught up with this thread.

A belated well done Andrew, that's one hell of a 'slab'.

 

Someone asked if it was a Wingham fish, I don't believe it is, 'cos I heard all the big bream in there had a label on them saying "Property of B. Burgess".

 

John.

[Anderoo]

Very useful about the undertow Budgie - that's what I suspected. I think that, above all else, will determine where I fish. It seems to be fairly noticeable that the fish have been caught when either the wind has dropped overnight or when people have been fishing in more 'sheltered' areas. If you combine that with spots with at least 6' of water; no weed; in or next to large®, featureless areas; and known areas, it narrows the lake down very significantly...

 

Another member has also independently discovered spodded groundbait. I'm so impressed with it. It takes a bit of effort to get it all out there, but definitely worth it!

 

Fake baits - I'm a total convert! My next step is to find one which is the right size and density and which holds a flavour well (ideally one which tench don't particularly like, but swim selection and baiting style should go a long way to avoid them). If it works, I wouldn't use anything else. If perch and eels weren't a problem I'd probably stick with worm and corn, but it's just impossible. What I want is a bait which I can cast out over a baited spot at about 5pm and which is still there and still attractive at dawn, unless a bream takes it. And for it to be neutral bouyancy.

 

The one event which really made me take fake baits seriously was a when I was tench fishing earlier in the year. I'd cast around with a marker float, making loads of disturbance, and finally found my first spot. I cast to it with an unbaited rig so I could clip up and mark the line, and put the rod on the platform. A few seconds later it was moving across the platform heading for the lake! So I grabbed it, thinking a pike had taken the lead or something, and played in what turned out to be a nice tench. Without realising I'd cast out a rig with one fake maggot on the hair - no other bait in the swim, and after lots of marker float disturbance - and a tench had taken it within seconds, in a low stock water. That did the old confidence the world of good!

 

However, as I said, the water was clear and tench are visual feeders. At night, after bream, you'd want something different. At the moment that would be a 'real' bait for attraction and a fake one for bouyancy. A single attractive, fake bait would be neater though.

 

Question about undertow - how long do you reckon it takes to slow/stop following strong wind? Undertow is the one thing I'm trying to get my head around at the moment.

 

EDIT: I should clarify that when using fake baits I always add a small PVA stocking of real bait to the hook. A fish feeding on the real things will suck up the fake ones (unless it's an eel or a perch!). Also - very important - it stops the short, soft braided hooklengths tangling.

Edited July 10, 2008 by Anderoo

[Dick Dastardly]

I wish that was true John! dont mind sharing them, with the Oxford mafia though!

 

Anderoo I really dont know the answer to the undertow.

 

The above is after trying to put down several thoughts ideas on the subject none of them actually making any sense so I deleted them! As you know the undertow is caused by the wind.I presume it isnt instant but takes a period of time for it to blow enough to start up.ie the wind blowing strong enough in the same direction.How long after the wind stops does it stop? I would hazzard a guess that it stops quicker than it starts but thats all I can really offer.

[Dick Dastardly]

Just some observations from the last two sessions.

 

As you say eels and perch seem to avoid artificial maggots etc even among beds of maggots.Not supprising as they both dont "hoover" up food so the carp/hemp/bare hook thing doesnt apply here. They will pick up real corn if fished on the hook with the maggot feeder. The tench and carp feeding hoovering style dont really target the particular hook bait it just gets sucked in as weve spoke about.

 

From the above I suppose we really need to work out/decide if these freak size bream hoover (as indeed their smaller cousains do) or are more selective "grazers" as sugested by Alex.If they "hoover" then no problem with fake bait but if they "graze" would they pick up the fake bait intentionaly? On smaller food items they must still surely "hoover" else they would just expend to much energy in relation to the food they took in? Maybe small baits fished "mass" style with fake baits would be ok but bigger single baits would have to be natural? But thats assuming they wont pick up single fake baits! Same old same old just not enough action to easily draw conclusions from.

[Anderoo]

Same old same old just not enough action to easily draw conclusions from.

 

And that's what it all comes round to in the end isn't it! Nobody knows because there isn't enough data.

 

I suspect the bream are more grazers than hoovers, which is why I'd try to get that dusting of groundbait with a few choice morsels in there, my hookbait being one of them. They do 'hoover' single baits though (obviously) which is why semi-fixed rigs with baits on hairs work. I want a situation where they're mooching around the baited spot all fired up by the attractive groundbait, looking for anything worth eating. I'd want a fake bait that was very attractive - as attractive as a real bait - so it's worth a bream sniffing it out among all the attraction and picking it up. At the same time, there has to be enough other real food there to keep them there - but only just! That's the real make or break as you said before - enough to stop them and get them feeding, but not so much that all you get is liners all night long.

 

The fake baits thing is really only to deter nuisance species. I'd include tench in that too, and I never thought I'd say that!

 

I'll have to figure out a way to measure undertow. It would be good to see more of Sharkbyte's footage.

 

BTW Budgie, did Andrew's carp take a fake bait after dark or in daylight?

[Dick Dastardly]

Was still light mate around 18.30-19.00 ish.He had just put out a few pouches of corn (a bit further than normal) and cast out after returning from the meeting.

 

Some brands of fake corn (well the stuff Ive got) is bouyant due to it being hollow as oppossed to the plastic itself being bouyant.Might be worth injecting this "void" with flavour as well as soaking? Not sure whar effect various flavour bases would have on the plastic though so would have to experiment.Ive found that oil based rather than EA (Ethyl Alcohol) based flavours last longer.But EA might be able to seep out of the fake bait easier?

 

With sweetcorn (real) though Ive not had any eel/perch problems unless its fished over a bed of live/dead maggots. Its really the rubber maggot thing I want to try ie fishing fake mags over real ones.Would prefer caster but cant afford it!