Ditchrat

You guys need to lighten up Thats is such a common practice around the world that it surprises me a country with such a rich and deep fishing history would find it so "horrific". The hypocritical thinking is just amazing. Its ok to grind up herrings, ect for bait, and its ok to impale a fish in the mouth to fight it as a sport, but you draw the line at hooking a livie through the eyes. No wonder why you all lose you sporting rights, you dont stand together.

Its sad to say that we are experiencing the same type of issues in the U.S. In the steelhead community pinners are a cult group that catch allot of fish. Float fishing for effective that fly fisherman cry that pinning should be illegal, we catch all the fish in a hole. Blah blah and more blah blah. Basically we are hated on the rivers because they see a relatively new angler catching more fish then a hard working experience fly angler. So its not only a comfortability thing but a resentment thing that we deal with.

This one will blow your cookies, slightly off the point. But in my travels musky fishing I have bought ducklings to use for bait, and in certain places for large nocturnal brown trout we live line mice for bait that we buy at the pet store. Im sure some of you may be appalled or horrified but it is not uncommon to use other higher mammals for bait. I even recall reading an article where some place in italy they use live cats for bait, I guess they have dogfish there. Things are different for different people and places.

all good stuff to read, any other suggested readings?

That was my assumption also. But it begs to answer the question, did Match fishing exhist back in 1922 or is it a modern term. Thanks for the information.

I developed a think for spoked centrepins, something a bit odd in the states as we just dont have a history with them. So with lack of resources I am scouring through the net looking for bits of history. Thats the fun part of collecting. Anyway have been doing some reading on allcocks and it seems at one point they were made with the drum and back plate being different materials. So I came across a tidbit saying in the early 20's the back plate was made of alloy to "match" the drum. Shortly afterwards they where called match aerials. Is accurate?

That is very true everywhere. Be glad you dont have to listen to people whin about hooking fish that dont bit.

You miss the pint. Fish are adapted not to feel pain. They feel pressure on their bodies and in their mouths but only to the extent that it is a sensation.

Maybe this was covered and I missed it. But I am surprised this has not been mentioned yet. As a student receiving degrees in both Marine Biology and Aquatic Biology I spent lots of time studing fish, and other animals. I learned their body types, anatomy and functions. One of the first things we learned is how fishes mouths are designed to allow them to crush snails, bite down on spines, and grab objects that are painful to humans. Some how I am not seeing the different between a pike getting impaled by a fishes spines and getting zapped by a hook

Tell me what exactly is the difference between hooking a fish and hooking a bait fish. Devils advocate here for a second. If hooking a bait fish is wrong and cause pain, and then it is suggested that using other the live bait is the right way to catch a fish. Then isnt hooking the target fish the same as hooking the bait fish. So if using bait is wrong then fishings wrong. See where Im heading with this? Anyway my take is, only kill or harvest the bait you need. Live baits fine with me I just prefer artificial for the challenge.

I did nt know you guys had those types over there. I thought you where all too sensible for that.

A noodle rod is a very light action spinning rod. Usually 9-12 ft and rated for very light line 2-4lb test. It is a full parbolic flexing rod designed to protect light line on big fish. Noodle rids are not used for centerpining over here. The get their name because the action is best described as a wet noodle. No our rods are designed very different. Guides need to be larger to deal with ice formation. We fish for steelhead in very cold weather at times. Generally the temps are a few degrees above freezing, however many times it is 10-20 degrees below that. The rods are very much like carp rods, but the grips are different. US angler generally place the pin 7-8 inches above the butt and have a 6-7 inch fore grip. Canadians use shorter rear grips in the 5-6 inch range and linger for grips, up to ten inches. Ours vary wildly as the US and Canada are both large. Generally the medium sized river flow at rates that wading above the waist will take you off your feet. However some creeks are slow moving and very much like many pictures I have seen of sewin rivers some of you might fish. But generally the rivers vary so much that describing them would leave a poor understanding of them. But just a quick try some of the rivers I fish actually are large enough for 65ft tug boats and barges to use them just a few miles down stream. Some are 10ft wide and meander though woods or fields. Some are rock bottom like slate, some are boulders and some are all sand. Most are a mix. Here a few few videos that might give you some idea. Winter Steelheading Delaware River Shad (3-9lb herring) Dont wztch this one with kiddies around am afraid I cused more then a couple times in it

They are testing a 5" dragged model right now. No word on an ETA they are still field testing it.

I think they are about $560.00 Not in the last 20 years. From California to Alaska, all the great lakes and now its spreading south into trout and small mouth waters of PA, NJ and DE, plus the whole of Canada.

I thought I might post a couple pics of the fish we chase with pins. If you look you will notice a modified raven sst2, the one with the extended arm and my buddies milner Some salmon Some browns Some bows

Canada has many talented centerpin builders two that come to mind are John Milner and John Sparh. Here is a Milner Kingfisher. Nice tightly hand built reel. They are great fishers too. Here is a spahr. There are equally good fishers, but cosmetically a little less ornate. There are tons of pinning sites in the US and Canada, it has become a little cultish. www.questoutdoors.net, www.floatfishing.net and www.riverrunsrods.com/forum (mine) are just a few of a dozen or more. As for you loafer, with the exception it is hard to see under low light it is by far one of the best designed trotting floats I have ever fished. I use them all the time and love them. I dont know about the conquest being released in the US. I have someone looking into it as I was reminded about this forum as I was searching to purchase a Conquest for myself. The features are innovative and the design is very attractive. I plan on adding one to my collection very soon. The sst3 is $269.00 us. It is a very light reel with equally light start up. I didnt come here looking to sell any thing and please dont take this personally but I wont sell one to you for the simple reason that I responded to give some info not promote a product. I suggest ordering from www.fishusa.com, shipping wont be terible and with the conversion rates it should be a good deal for you. You may want to also check out the ross flow. Another nice reel for the money If you want any more information on pins this side of the pond please feel free to contact me. I learned allot about centerpin tradition from reading sites like this, and am glad to return the favor

Given the size and structure of the rivers in the States centerpins allow the presentation of floats at long distances with a bait first presentation. The long of the short of it is more time in the strike zone equates to more fish on the line. Turns about to be about 7 fish 1 one against fixed spool anglers with or without floats. Seeing that I sell okumas, youngs and ravens I think you own a okuma. And frankly a little foolish if you think a Korean can company can match the knowledge of the Canadians when it comes to float fishing. Your Okuma is a ripped off cheaper version of the raven sst1.

I just happened to be passing though looking for some info on a stanton I just picked up, and trolling around google UK looking for unique pins when I saw this thread. I happen to be a raven dealer in the states and I fish these reels often. The SST1 was ripped of by okuma, and marketed as their own. The Okuma is close to the biggest piece of trash I have ever fished, once you touch a raven okumas just plain old feel cheap.. Granted I am comparing it to my Bob james, fred crouch, stanton and my ravens. The ravens are good reels, priced nicely. The matrix and matrix xl are OK reels, sturdy work horses. Nothing fancy and truth be told the start up is just ok. The SST2 and 3 are very nice start up is quick,but still below that of a Bob James. Removal of the bearings and a proper cleaning makes the real feel like a completely different animal. For light floats say 1-4 grams the sst3 is excellent. The down side is that it is very light and does not balance very well on longer rod that we use for steelhead 13ft plus.