darrell.cook

LOL, how right you are Rudd Did you know yoxers 92, I saw a birthday card from his parents!! That's where all the moneys going!!

I think theres been a few tasty lively debates recently, not negativity. The sort of debate you might enjoy in a pub on a Friday evening. I'd love to share a few bevvys with Yoxer and the others. Surely people with multiple brain cells can't survive totally on a diet of word association and the a-z of a-z ???

Yeah right, full time jobs for part time money. Mining paid decent money. Solid manufacturing base jobs paid decent money. Where is this area and what are the jobs ?? I'm fortunate to have a decent job for a major employer. As it happens we're a multi-national company with manufacturing in the following areas: UK, France, Spain, Italy, Romania, Turkey, China, North America and Australia. Most profitable in the UK and Australia. Kind of goes against what Yoxer says, but it's a fact. I've always considered myself fortunate, always been in work. Not so naieve as not to realise it's a fine line.

My eyes lit up then Chesters, I read your post too quickly I thought you said we could burn Maggie wuith it!

Trouble is yox, the 50p we save means we have to pay the ex-miner a £1 to sit at home on his back-side!!

Absolutely Mate. Agree entirely.

Yoxer, the destruction of this Countries manufacturing base goes way back before Tony Blair. When that evil b*tch thatcher declared war on the miners the writing was on the wall. This was a personal vendetta which destroyed communities. the Welsh valleys are still full of quality coal. Proud men, working class and proud to be so men, were thrown on the scrapheap, made to feel worthless, these in turn fathered a generation that had no hope - no hope leads to no ambition, leads to spiralling crime, drugs, more drain on the welfare state, and so it goes on. All your cheap imports are fine, until the cheap import takes your job. At that point it doesn't matter if your goods are half of the cost they used to be. When you've got b*gger all it hardly matters.

Lid, Taxpayers funding unmarried mothers - a real can of worms! Only clear cut if we assume that they all have 6 kids deliberately to set themselves up for a life of benefits and council houses. These cases are extreme, and you're right why should we tolerate it ? It's really sad that this is the limit of their ambition. We all say it's bl**dy wrong, life of luxury, no work, benefits, etc. - I'd hate it - waste of life if that's the limit of their ambition. But there are many other examples, whereby young girls are left holding the baby, pitiful, out of their depth. Surely we should not abandon these, and treat them in the same manner as the pre-meditated babys = council house = benefit. The concept of the welfare state is fine, it's all the mongrels that abuse it that ruin it. If it was used as it was intended we wouldn't have the issues.

Let's start off by sterilising all un-married mothers who can't fully support themselves and their kids. Wow, what a blinding idea!! However what if said unmarried mother later went on to better herself, worked, married, supported herself, etc. She may even desire more children with her new husband to fill their 4 bed suburban semi - but oh, wait we sterilised her! Not really an idea is it Jim, more a rant that's bound to find favour with the hang 'em high brigade. I'd be interested in real, considered ideas. Like I say they're a bit thin on the ground.

Wow - that's some cavity, guess the dentist had his work cut out ( that is it in picture 2 right ?? ) Seriously, sorry you had a miserable time - great pictures.

So lets summarise: Scrap the welfare state in all it's forms. Scrap the NHS Insist that people work in sweatshops - and be bl**dy well grateful. Seriously yoxer, I see you have a little merit in all that you say - but in reality a move like this is just a tad extreme and likely to create just a few more problems than it would sort out, don't you agree ??

Just the one Newt! you know we insist on matching pairs this side of the pond!!

Gus, companies are forced to curb payments into pension plans due to Inland Revenue limits.

Chesters, you've just given several reasons and examples relating to people actually living longer!! Don't think you reallly meant to. Seems all the " wonderfull " ideas are falling to bits. Take endowments - total disaster!! A lot of things hang in the balance of the stock market. Just what is the " stock market " a perception of worth by a load of city suits ?? Hardly a solid rock to build anything on, let alone pensions and endowments. Then again that's an easy statement to make with hindsight, afterall it has provided huge returns in the past. So if not the stock market then what ??

Do we really need / want this ? Do you look at your television and think " I can't watch this it's too grainy " ?? The trouble with technology is theres's no one in the loop asking "just because we can - does that mean we need too ? " Anyway, I'm probably an old cynic as the only purpose the TV has for me is a cure for insomnia. Spent many an hour snoring through the dross.

Then 40% of them don't deserve an opinion. The real pity is that they can't be excluded from all the " benefits " Probably wouldn't have a crisis then

Yoxer, Yoxer where for art thou Yoxer ?? You can't leave it now ! OK Chesters - Where do you suggest the Government "invest" it ? let's forget all the emotion and smokescreens this problem has just three elements: 1. Stock Market slump 2. Low interest rates 3. People living longer It's a problem that exists in all forms of Pension - state, personal, company all affected. if the answer's one of investment, then where ?

If most people do know they're certainly not falling over themselves to tell us! C'mon Jim don't bottle it now - enlighten us.

Plenty of truths there! But this doesn't explain the problem with company pensions - does it ??Much more to this than that I'm afraid. Leon mentioned the Stock Market - theres the escape!!

Jim, I take it you don't have them then ??

Have you ever seen a " Major Engineering Project " come in anywhere remotely near the initial budget ? I think we should expect no less than an efficient IT system within the NHS. Afterall, if you moved from one part of the country to another - would you expect the local bank branch to have to wait six weeks for your records to appear ? It does when you change doctors !!

Us "Brits" like to have a moan, governments and weather forcasters can always look out But - Weather forcasting really is cr*p don't you agree ? I studied the forecast for last Saturday, because I was fishing, The Tuesday forecast changed completely by Friday and when Saturday came it bore no resembelance to either !!

Yes Yoxer, lately it is hard. Mind you I'd say it was more difficult with any Tory government - ever ! How about allowing the Bank of England to set interest rates, and more investment in the NHS and education than ever before. Perhaps most importantly making Labour electable ( mind you that does go back to '97 ) The past few years have had some extraordinary events, September 11, Iraq, even Europe issues. We have the luxury of judging the government with the benefit of hindsight - and yes mistakes have been made. Question directly to you now yoxer - what does the country need now ? and who do we need to do it ?

Lot's of people are attacking Tony Blair's government. I guess the easiest job in politics is being in opposition, as whatever the government do will not find favour with everyone. In opposition all you need to do is join the critics - easy win friends without having to put your money where your mouth is. Two questions - Do any of the opposition ( or any of you for that matter ) have the answers ? Do you really think the Tories will do a better job ? Talk is cheap. [ 12. October 2004, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: darrell.cook ]

I don't think anyone, who works in the real world of work, has any sympathy for public servants.I have to work nights and overtime to earn more than that, with NO pension on the end of it! 580 of us have just been told we are redundant next year! Jim, I think Ken's point is valid in that he states that the pension scheme equates to 40/80. The better schemes ( final salary )will be based on 40/60. However take your point also. It is a time bomb when people are not able to build up a reasonable pension fund.Can't believe that the pensions minister stated on this evening's news that there is "not a crisis ". Personally I have been told that I will need to increase my contributions to my company pension scheme, as the fund that was recently awash with money is now in Deficit. So bad that the company have had to restart contributions themselves. Likewise any hopes I had of retiring early are well and truly dashed - the penaltires for this have also been increased. The worst part is that this shift has ocurred in a relatively short period of time, where will it end ? [ 13. October 2004, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: darrell.cook ]