malevans

Nathan you will have to pay your money and take your choice on this one. I taught my wife and kids on a river for reasons stated (thinking about it i taught my brother in 2002 as well) based upon my own experience of being totally self taught and starting on stillwaters. I also think most beginners start with too heavy an outfit it is easier to "maintain form" if the effort level is not too high. I agree with Koi carp that you should go with an experienced "teacher" to either type of venue. On the river they will show you what features to look for and help get the odd fly out of a tree etc, on a still water they will advise on what depth to target and hopefully stop you trying to cast towards the horizon like the other anglers are doing. On either venue if possible get them to video you casting.....you will hate the initial results but you will improve more quickly and improve with less bad habits. My wife used video on me when I was learning to speycast, I returned favour last summer

Koi carp some folks have all the luck, i was fishing sink and draw mid water with a goldhead mini streamer and bagged a skimmer bream. It did not hit the rod tip like thunder

If you are really keen lie down on your belly cos if you can see them they can see you. Also as Koicarp says if they are not in the mood they will just ignore. They may be where you can see them but that might not be where they are feeding. And as argyll states presentation can be, and more often than not is, key also, Just like floater fishing for carp really.

As I mentioned in another post. I would go river everytime. I have been teaching my wife and son last year and I taught them exclusively on rivers. Trouble is access to river trout can be limited depending upon where you live. Reasons are: Distance not very important, usually. Fast current will correct the odd dodgy cast if the river is upland in nature. Less consideration required of where in the water column the fish are. Less water column to think about, usually. Fish take fly more easily because they have less time to make a decision. Fish location easier to determine, because they will be where ever its costs them least energy to be. Downsides: May need to wade. Backcasting sometime not as free as on some rainbow stock pond.

I am very lucky in that I am very close to the numerous MKAA venues and also only 8 miles from the carp syndicate lake I belong to. (Which incidently I seem to be the only person piking on during the winter months.) Its 485 miles each way to the river in the Highlands my wife and I have season rods on. I have done the Ebro in Spain, France and driven to germany for trout/grayling. Furtherest distance from home I have fished so far is canaries when away with my wife. Like another poster my wife and i have travel fly and lure rods which go everywhere, including when I am travelling on business, which sadly is all too often. But May 2005 I am booked for Peru, Amazon and Andies. Going on my own for that one.

In the scenario you desribe by the lillies etc I use an 11ft Stradic lure rod, 7g - 35g and I would borrow my wifes rod, which is same, if i needed two rods for the day. These are my purpose built zander rods too Hope missus didn't hear that. Malcolm

Oops.....bet that is on some anti web site already and a focal point of their next lobbying campagne.

Well for me, assuming gamefish and freshwater only in the UK, it is: Greenwells Glory Hackled (Dry) Greenwells spider (Wet and in surface film) Black and peacock spider (Wet and in surface film) GHRE gold head nymph (Wet) Olive gold head nymph (Wet) Black epoxy buzzer (Wet) Damsel Nymph (wet) Daddy longlegs (Dry) Lime green dog nobbler (for the end of blank days.) Thats it folks.

Why do some folks get lots of different flies and not use them ? Same reason all my carping stuff is stainless steel and i insist on fly rod and reel being same manufacturer. No real reason at all. For me the secret is quite a lot of flies but not many patterns. Size variants are key however. Same with salmon I use Hairy Mary, Blue charm, Garry Dog thats it, hairy mary by far the most successful, although the principles of salmon accepting a fly are very different to that of trout. Where additional flies may be required is on a destination trip, as I indicated ref. the Saale in Germany. Some of the flies used for pacific salmon are very similar to flies i have except mine are in my pike fly wallet ! So if i ever go after the pacific salmon i should not need to by many flies

Switching threads, you are not. My mate is addicted to flies he has acquired thousands. Rarely uses more patterns than you if that. he is the same with salmom flies. just a shoppaholic cheers Malcolm

Given the wind is like to blow for a few months yet most of the time I would recommend the following reads. The first is called "The trout and the fly", which incidently made me think about my carping and piking quiet seriously as well. The second is called "matching the hatch". I actually have quite a few flies but I don't have many patterns. Greenwells spider, GRHE goldhead and goldhead olive nymph, Greenwells glory dry hackled, and skinny buzzers. I have the above in lots of sizes. I have a few others like my mosquito dries but I only use them for Grayling on the river Saale in Germany, never found fish interested in them anywhere else. All my UK saltwater is done with various colours of crazy charlies. My wife ties most of our flies. One genre of fly I have always found hopeless is the so called traditional scottish wets, even scottish fish are not keen. Also i find for most patterns commercial flies don't come small enough. Anyway i would avoid having a box of loads and loads of patterns it just gives more scope to make the wrong decision. Why is this the case well that is covered in the two books. If nymphing nymph the should match colour of river bottom or weed in vicinity.

I use a 2.25 TC abu composite, a 3lb TC shakespeare pursuit (I think) a 2.5 tc Shimano power loop carp. Use a 3.5 TC Colt II carp for drifting. Reels shakespeare somthing or other, Abu cardinal (popular plus model lol) Ryobi 7000GT for drifting and Diawa px1650. A right bunch of mongrols, which also have summer jobs as marker rods and spodding reels, and beachcasting etc. They work though and pike don't seem to mind, I don't think the carp would mind if my rods and reels didn't all match, but I have not got the confidence to risk it.

Agree sharing thr right way forward. Including sharing of revenue into EA. Canoe licenses. and charges for access in scotland. I will share anything if the bill is shared.

Hey guys lets get the angling factions lined up on this one, when the river I fish in Scotland gets invaded it is when it is in spate, which happens weekly from the hydro scheme, and its the prime fishing day of the week. I admit when the GT ouse is in flood near where I live then yeah not such an issue, I can fish a lake instead. Canoeists will not pay to use waters. Paying will be in direct contravention of the right to roam they seek. If they offered enough money to owners today many of would be kicked of our carp/coarse lakes already, but do they offer the cash, of course not. Whilst not getting my support one consequence is for those that agree they can insist on the right to roam with their infernal baitboats. Light blue touch paper LOL. Please don't advocate compromises that just happen to fit with your particular angling flavour. We must be united. Interestingly I visited a web site about the river i fish in scotland which is a canoeists site, there advocating that they stress their economic input to the village, loads of students kipping in transit vans....yeah most lucrative for the village in question.

So how is it going ? Agree that technique more important than distance hence my approach with wife and kids. Pangolin is correct in that rod should be stopped at between 12:00 and 13:00 depending upon the wind. Its time for the forward cast when the back cast tugs on the rod tip, that happens when everything has straightened out. The other thing is keep that wrist locked. I must admit I went upstream nypmphing for the first ever time last year and it took me a while to get the speed correct for making the nymph move up through current slightly faster than current. Got a few nice river rainbows. Pic of one on gallery. I was using a 7.5ft #4 rod, river over grown, but may be an extra 6 inchs of rod would have made it easier to master. Things can be unexpected the wild brownes on the river I fish in the highlands only take the dry fly when it starts to produce drag. So try everything it suggests you should do in the books and if that does not work try everything the books say you should not do. Fish renown for not being widely read. lol

Canoeists are at times a problem on the river i have rods on in the highlands. Not the regular Scottish Canoe Association members, but the 200 or so that arrive bank holidays from all over, inc europe, and who do not abide with the agreements made with the SCA. River is just about unfishable at these times. What really annoys me about the claims for assess to resources is that the canoeists pay nothing. Likewise in England. At least anglers pay for their rod licenses in England. However as said earlier the SCA locals are very polite and considerate lot. Its the others including a bunch who steamed through and lost me the salmon I had on the end that are the problem. I was chuffed NOT, given the price of my membership and the 485 mile drive each way I can tell you, particularly as fishing had not been good for a couple of years and this was my first hook up for the same period.

A partially decomposed, but lip hooked 6oz ish Perch which had dislodged, with only one bleep, my half mackerel, prior to impaling its self as described. No fight to speak of, other than mine to keep my lunch where it belonged.

Whats more said match anglers are ruining there match fishing going forward. Waters need pike. When they are fishing non stop for stunted 2 oz roach they will have only themselves to blame.

Hi both, well i taught my son and wife over the last two years so i know what starting off is like. Firstly i would agree that what flavour flying fishing you are planning to do is key. Firstly find somewhere you will catch, go with someone who knows how to catch there, and go with some one who knows how to cast well in terms of technique. You might benefit from professional instruction but that depends upon the individual. Grayling are wonderful fish but i have not fished for them in the UK, only Germany. I use a weighted nymph, no 6 cortland fast sinker and extra super fast sinking leader. Which works great april early may, by end of may it is dry mosquito patterns that score best. Obvously two different types and weight of rod are needed for the two approaches. But also I recommend starting on rivers if you can rather than still waters. Thats how i taught my wife, if faced with an expanse of still water before her she would have given up. Don't buy your gear until you have decided what flavour and where. Good luck. Cheers Malcolm

Agree on spinner over fly for salmon. For trout it depends. On the Scottish river we have rods on spinner would not stand a chance against my wifes greenwells spider variant. We know we have tried it loads of times over the years. Not for the normal sized wee brown troot anyway. Spinner had great advantage though ..... you don't need to have clue whats going on in the water, and if trout is not something you fish for often this is good news. Now if we are talking maggots or worms v fly then the wrigglers win every time.

Aren't all record fish a fluke really, what if a smaller one had got to the bait first. Not aware of any specific method that can stop that happening, witness the jack that took the huge herring i had put out, or the roach that took my 24mm boilie, after whearing it down somewhat. So if a record fish gets there first its a fluke in my book. Would i Claim it, yeah if it would bring enough cash so i could give up my current job lol. I do all sorts of angling, but the magic is the same as when I was akid, dream/anticipation of the leviathan from below, unexpected like, sod what species it turns out yo be. My mate cast his toby into a water fall after salmon, got a 5lb wild scottish river brown trout.....really rare ......supa.

I read a report a few (may be 3 to 5)years back in the angling press regarding the first capture of a burbot, for umpteen years, over in Lincs if i recall, can't remember if it was confirmed or not. Bit late to ban the carp really. Likewise Wells and the North american species inc the rainbow and sturgeon. Totally pointless debate the indiginous one, full of ill informed sentiment, all the pike north of Glasgow would have to be culled also as we introduced them, like wise perch. If you think this not an issue, then ask the good old ferox, who did not ask for this competition in its low biomass environment. In fact there are very very few indiginous coarse fish species in scotland full stop as a result of the ice age. Like wise the west country and iberian peninsular. Ireland would have no coarse fish at all without human stocking, game fish only, again due to the ice age. Finally the interest in angling would be so much less without the diversification that has occurred that this site probably would not be able to exist and Petra would have succeeded in banning angling a long ago. What no sea trout in the falklands and patagonia, no brown trout in Butan and New Zealand/Austrailia.....un thinkable LOL. I wonder which nations anglers assisted and drove the diversification into these distant corners of the globe ? What we do need to do is put the brakes on now regarding further introduction of new species in all areas of the world.

Hi. I have three baitrunner aero GTs 6010s which are fine, use these with 2 2lb tc and one 2.5 Tc on my pod. I also have three Ultegra 12000XTs which are also fine and i use these with 2 2.75lb tc and a 3.5lb tc on goal posts. I have almost never had a problem with any of my Shimano reels including the relatively cheap Nexave I use for lure work. With the one exception being a new multiplier, I acquired to replace the shakespeare one i was using, which got me so wound up i smashed my Technium spinning rod into four pieces around a tree. Racket and explitives got wife irritated as she was fly fishing up stream from me. Will try to stay calmer in future for sake of marrage.

I don't start till spring either. My first trip to scotland is at Easter. Except for, I will stalk a pike with fly if i see one whilst dead baiting. Glad casting is going well for you Dvarcet. Trouble is casting gets two much emphasis for people new to fly fishing, especially on the rainbow still waters. I taught my son and wife on rivers where distance less important and technique can be concentrated on. Unlike my views expressed regarding starter kits for coarse angling, i hold the reverse view regarding fly gear. I reasonable (but not bank account breaking) out fit is essential (particularly for kids due to weight). So I hope those of you that due enjoy the stillwater rainbow scene are bagging loads. Like wise to you who live close enough to Greyling to have a few trips over winter. Tight lines Malcolm

Hi all, its a legit catch IMHO, after all you used rod and line and it was you who braved the elements. Point is you retrieving your bait through session probably bought pike into the location it was and got its interest up ready for what seemed an easier meal to it. Overall though it is one for personal conscience you have to be happy with your self. But IMHO your catch has more merit than say. A salmon angler who is told exactly which fly to fish and exactly were to put it by a gillie. Same with angling abroad with a guide. I had a 128lb catfish out of ebro a great angling experience but, a capture of no angling merit on my part, because the guide showed me everything. So well done on being bank side and bagging the pike mate. No right or wrong views on this topic. I do count big bream and tench caught when carping cos perhaps thats the best way to catch the specimens. Who knows.