Ian Burrett

Is there any fishing for the whelks (Buckies) down there as the local boys here, use stinking crab and LSD's for their buckie pots.

Hi Big Cod No one wants to see inshore fishermen lose their jobs. Perhaps the inshore fleet could have the licenses non transferable so when a guy retires his license retires with him. Perhaps they could also be offered incentives to change their type of fishing. They could even be offered employment building artificial reefs, so they would become custodians of the sea like farmers are becoming with set aside etc. I wonder how many fishermen actually fish for white fish inside the six miles, as the biggest effort on the West coast, by the inshore fleet is for buckies crabs and lobster etc. There would be problems with a buy out, but nothing is insurmountable

:clap2: :clap2: You mentioned a GP's surgery on your original post. Wouldn't men in white coats be more appropriate for Steve :wallbash:

Hi Wurzel One of the SOS committee Denis Kelly found this whilst doing some research on the Eu fisheries site. Although written in legal gibbety gook; The boats clearly broke the law Trans-shipment and export of fish prohibited without a licence 7. (1) Within the fishing waters the transshipment from a fishing boat or the receiving of fish by a fishing boat from another fishing boat or the transport from the territorial seas or internal waters by any fishing boat of fish transshipped from any other fishing boat is prohibited unless authorized by a transshipment licence or export licence granted under this section. (2) Where any fishing boat is used in contravention of a prohibition imposed by this section the master, the owner and the charterer shall each be guilty of an offence. Provided that it shall be a defence to a prosecution for an offence arising under this subsection if the person charged satisfies the court that the fish was not taken, caught or captured in the fishing waters. PENALTY: £50,000.

For a quick look at water temps. check out http://www.uni-koeln.de/math-nat-fak/geome.../snoweuropa.gif

And I suppose you do Challenge. By your own admission, even your local organisation has banned you from expressing your commercially biased views

Hi Glen It sounds ambitious but didn't the salmon syndicates buy out Salmon fishermen in many parts of the country?

Hi Wurzel You will know yourself you cannot judge a ray or skate by the color as they will adopt the coloring of the surrounding area. The skate caught in deep muddy holes are almost Black underneath. I once sent photos of a ray to be identified that was jet black on top and underneath. I thought i had caught a hybrid but it turned out it was a thornie living in a wreck of a coal barge. What do you mean by your quote? Have I missed something?

See http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=212262007

Hi Steve No surprise there. The skate is classed as critically endangered as are Spurdog and Porbeagle shark by the World Conservation Union (IUCN) FAO CITES and every other scientific organisation. The tope is classed as endangered. I don’t blame the commercial fishermen but the European rulers. They had a chance last December to order a zero catch on the above three critically endangered species but whimped out, for fear of upsetting the French and Spanish who between them catch over a half of the worlds landings of elasmobranches. The Elasmobranches are in deep trouble because of their slow growth rate and the time it takes to reach sexual maturity. With skate, both males and females mature at around 10 years old when they are roughly 100lb. Very slow reproduction cycle, with females laying around 40 eggs over a few months, roughly every three years. For a comparison the Thornback, at 6-7 years will produce 140-180 eggs every two years From http://www.ukbap.org.uk/UKPlans.aspx?ID=543 The common skate is vulnerable to capture by many static and towed fishing gear; it is taken both in target fisheries for rays and as by-catch in other fisheries. Its slow growth and large size at maturity mean that juveniles have little or no chance of surviving to maturity in heavily fished areas. Although no longer targeted where it is very scarce, the common skate continues to be caught as by-catch in fisheries for other species, including more fecund rays. Under these conditions commercial extinction can readily be followed by biological extinction. Reducing fishing mortality on the mature female component of the stock is considered an appropriate goal for arresting further declines in the short-term, and allowing the stock to recover in the medium- to long-term. It is the last sentence that encouraged Defra to look at a maximum landing limit The value to RSA is enormous, "One tagged skate has been recaptured 6 times and that fish alone, with charter and accommodation fees is worth over £5000 to the Scottish economy and it is still swimming around. The same fish would fetch about £10 pounds at the fish market."

Hi Wurzel They are far to large for Thornback. Did you check on the link. The guy is advertising them as common skate on his website. He states they are from Scottish and Irish waters. The English longliner that is working the Oban area for Spurdog is from Grimsby, the same town as the common skate seller. Now that is some coincidence.

I guess we are just arguing about a name. Both RSA and commercial wants to put a stop to the unlicensed fishermen selling fish. What ever camp they are from, if they are breaking the law they should be prosecuted.

Hi Wurzel No I wouldn't want all boats tied up, but the breeding females could be returned. Regards a market for them. This Guy has been selling them for a while http://www.dogfish.uk.com/skate.html

Hi Cornishman All charter boats must be licensed but this license doesn't allow either skipper or customers to sell fish. The paying guests can take unlimited amounts of fish home for their own use. If the people you are talking about, do sell fish, then they are unlicensed commercial fishermen not recreational sea anglers

The common skate I was referring to is the Raja batis Tje early distribution maps shows it was abundant all over European waters from http://www.ukbap.org.uk/UKPlans.aspx?ID=543 The common skate is widely distributed, but very scarce, throughout European waters. It has probably been fished to extinction in the Irish Sea and is extremely rare in the central and southern North Sea, the western Baltic and western Mediterranean.

A couple of my anglers Paul and John also hooked one from the said pier. Guy fishes regularly with them at Etive. John, after 4 hours of pulling his guts out, tied his line to the winch of the boat moored there and snapped his line

Hi Wurzel I give in. You will never agree that commercial fishing has depleted any stocks and I will never agree they haven't; so it's easier to agree to disagree

Hi Wurzel The point I was trying to make, is that Common skate used to be found all round the coast of Britain. Hence the name. You can't bkindly state that no species has suffered because of overfishing.

Hi Challenge I will repeat a question I asked you a few months ago. Have you any information gathered from anywhere, where a bag limit on Cod has been suggested by any angling organisation? My only interest is in Elasmobranches, most of which are in trouble. I also stated that in the SOS strategy response that a one rule fits all, doesn't apply and decisions must be taken on a local basis. By implication the North East should look after its own region

Hi Wurzel When was the last time you caught a common skate or spurdog?

Challenge your a ill informed dinosaur. Firstly the measures are being talked about as you well know are for Spurdog and Common Skate as a conservation measure. But you are twisting things again to put a different emphasis on the post Who mentioned Cod? If you had brains you would be dangerous. I have just written the SOS response to Defra for the RSA strategy. Here is an extract. BAG LIMITS AND LICENSING Whilst SOS fully supports the principle of compulsory catch and release on endangered species and bag limits as a conservation tool, this can only be supported if there is also a corresponding commercial restriction. There is no justification in asking anglers to return fish, if the stock levels are still dropping through commercial exploitation. A few members brought up the absurd possibility that RSA's face the possibility of being criminalised for retaining say 6 fish where a commercial can retain 60,000 and discard a further high number of fish without prejudice. It was felt by many of our members, that we couldn’t support a licensing scheme until such times that a strategy had been developed and more importantly, implemented and anglers could see an improvement in numbers and sizes of fish from the beaches. The rest can be viewed at http://www.save-our-sharks.org/e107_plugin...wtopic.php?1215

Hi challenge Fortunatley these are not my ideas Challenge but are being considered by intelligent , non drug taking, non fantasy never never land scientists. http://www.defra.gov.uk/defrasearch/index....m+landing+limit

Hi Wurzel Errr Yes It's called conservation. I believe it is voluntary now, but intelligent Lobster fishermen have been doing it for years with the berried Lobster. It's called looking after the future. Isn't that what sustainability is all about.

Hi Wurzel That's a good point which demonstrates why so many species are in trouble

Hi Wurzel The idea of a mamimum landing limit, will hopefully stop exploitation of the Common skate and spurdog. The Thornback will be under the size but it may effect blondes. Because of the way spurdog shoal up in year packs, it is possible for longliners to target the heavier mature females, which obviously doesn't do a lot for the future of the stocks. Spurdog can be 35 years old before they first breed and carry their young for 2 years, so are vulnerable to overfishing. Rather than return these fish it is hoped that a MML will encourage fishermen to target a different size and sex group. There is no excuse for anyone killing the severely endangered common skate. Just out of interest. Ceefas have been doing some electronic tagging of the Rays and this has thrown up a few anomalies. It was previously thought that Rays were localised stocks but the data has shown they have three distinct migration patterns. The stock levels are very mixed with some areas holding good numbers and other areas locally extinct Whilst an MLL probably would be impractical on most species I believe it's certainly the way forward for the elamobranches as they are particularly slow growing and late to reproduce and in small numbers.