Jaffa

Well lets find out

99% of anglers may agree that "sustainable fish exploitation" is something they wish to support but what is actually meant by that word "sustainable" ? You see two schools of thought in all this and think "the head in the sand" school is daft because it ignores all the trouble that is about to hit our cozy hobby. You are spot on (MHO) with the fact that this stuff does not originate with the angling "reps" but is bigger, and likely to get much worse. On the other hand our reps come across as being footsoldiers for the very forces that threaten what we do. Its surely also the case that people generally have had it up to their necks in EU legislation and centralised planning, and its a lot more than RSA that are getting fed up and angry, so the "head in sand" brigade might not be the dead end you see atm? Borg is now apparently looking at relative stability as being up for change in 2012, which might be an alien term to most reading this but looks like another pandoras box to me, esp as it will happen just before the protections on uk limits come up for grabs. A lot of personal flak has been given out to the people that decided to try and do what they saw as good, a lot of it as ugly as the the typecasting and anti commercial stuff that used to happen here. FWIW Leon has pointed me in the direction of more good sources of information than anyone , but my Leon filters now work at a high level Personally i don't care if he has 666 across his scalp; he has "informed" me plenty and the constant attacks on him seem like some new kind of bloodsport. FWIW i see "RSA" power currently in the South and that is also where "RSA" have the biggest contridictions . Its fair enough for an angler to get peeved if they are banned from catching half a dozen cod, when they know full well the commercials will take many times that. Its surely also ****s for RSA to be on a political high-horse and ignore those species where RSA are likely to have a bit of an impact, yet they will; Turbot and Brill in the channel for instance? Chris

Its the Haar what done it http://www.thehaar.org.uk/intro/haarintro.html Chris

Don't know who John Baxter is though. You any idea? Why no quotes from the the SMRU scientists that actually did the research;seems strange... why is everything from this Baxter guy who works for an organisation (SNH) who part funded it? I notice John Baxter does not tell us what the "right" number of common seals that should frolic along our coastline are.... I guess it has to be a number more than on the day he took the job? Real life nature must be hell and we should all be grateful that someone else is working out the complicated stuff for us Viva RSa........................................

IMHE some politicians have a very good understanding about fish, the fishing industry, local culture and common humanity, and it has nothing to do with party lines. At least we can vote them in or out depending on our viewpoint. Who is John Whitton btw?

I doubt the link was aimed at you

Seals? If you don't know the difference between a Grey and a Common seal then your post is no more than pointing AN readers to the "facts" as told by wonderful journalists who actually know bugger all. If you do in fact know the difference, and im sure you do, why post that link? Who is supposed to benefit from that kind of slight of hand? RSA?

Hi Barry, Maybe the fact you assume he is a "nutter" for daring to talk about the very unPC of subject of seals, actually says everything that needs to be said about why there is a drive to yet more devolution of power? Chris

You imagine its hard to drive a saltwater species to extinction and i'd imagine the same fwiw , but i disagree that we have ONLY been "continually told the stocks are depleted or seriously depleted" ;IMHO thats just spin - green groups, a few scientists in need of funding and fame, and sadly it seems.... also RSA reps have jumped right in with two feet to endorse all the misinformation about extinctions that happens to sell. The point is that their agenda is not about fish stocks at "x", "y" or "z" level at all, yet as a commercial or RSA that surelyis where its all at? Its dead easy and logical for the interest groups to lay into the fishermen while ignoring their own problems ( seems to be the British disease atm imo, for whatever thats worth) There is so much complexity there surely? and yet it gets reduced to the media reporting the "findings" (always fear inducing - so much better to rouse the mob in us all?) of scientific cliques that just happen to have been funded (by billionaire oil money) to come up with exactly what they were paid to do. I have banged on about the Pew commission and the sheer cash they have to buy whatever world-view they wish, and no doubt look an idiot for doing so. I suspect things are going to change real fast though Barry - its amazing how tough times bring out truth and all the expensive crap falls away? However of a nutter or idiot you may think i am Barry, go take a look at Pew and make your own mind up. I doubt you will find a single Scottish commercial (at least not one with an investment in it... ) that would disagree that fish stocks are not what they could be. It seems barking mad to me that anyone would imagine they don't care about this ?! Fishstock health means EVERYTHING to them in a way that all the groups going for them will never understand or really actually yhave to worry about. Fuel prices were crazy low in the 80's ($10 a barrel or less as i remember.... dubious ), which funnily enough,! led to bigger engines, more power, so the viable use of new heavy gear like rockhoppers on virgin hard ground. In the background you had (imho) a power war in the civil service as all those entrenched postions In MAFF (the English Defra of its time) developed over years of the Humber distant water cod fleet , resisted the the reality of change as the share owned inshore fleet expanded. We saw the removal of the ban on inshore trawling in Scotland, the relaying of information through the papers instead of through the people expected to act, and the quiet selling off of huge areas of the Uk seabed. Much of it pre internet so of course clearly untrue.... If you want "Joe Bogeys" real name then you got google m8 Same for the SW herring and those amazing north sea tuna which funnily enough never attracted a commercial fishery... .. must have been morality and respect for RSA wishes that stopped investing their cash in that species? Big fat tuna and yet no evil commercial going for it? That would have my dog sniffing at the lamp-Post of the author Chris

Seems its the same old same where not one of the media connected" loud voices" can actually point to a species that the commercials have driven to extinction? Given the world in which we live this seems amazing to me. Im curious why so much money is raised and spent to attack commercial fishermen when from what i can see they are not exactly in the champions league of mans effect on the planet..

You have'nt a clue about the story regarding the development. Me neither. Apparently we are in the realms of good guys vs bad guys, new brooms and , as always it seems, public money. The Steveson lass has had a fair bit of coverage but who are all these other players? Does anyone know what "all aspects of a working harbour " actually means in any real sense ? Its something we all no doubt can identify but it will be also different to all. In legal terms how the hell does that work out? and are the " goodies" plans good for anglers or not? FWIW i've seen nothing but years of negative coverage about the Stevensons; FWIW they press all the wrong buttons for me, but they still deserve to be heard and their opinion taken seriously however much it grates. They may know a thing or two? Chris

Then i take it you nothing to shed on this issue, other than your usual personal attacks? Never met Eliziabeth Stevenson myself so no idea if your hatred of her is justified. Have you an opinion on the changes at Newlyn that is not framed by your hatred of others? I

Hi Barry, I live a long way from Newlyn but the Stevensons certainly hit headlines for the wrong reasons and that the only way i know of them. Saying that, I always get curious when lots of money and a "clearly identified baddie" is involved. What's the story with this Newlyn development? Do you think its good or bad? I noticed that this 5 million of public money is paying for various government offices on the pier, a market "theater" ; as opposed to a market, and, of course, a Heritage center. FWIW, we also are getting nice a heritage center, fancy cafe serving overpriced frozen seafood and wee blocks of flats and a marina - all much nicer than those dirty, smelly weird fishing boats we used to have Never mind the "baddie" , wheres the money going in all this and is it good or bad for the readers of this forum?

BMP, Shaw, Bradshaw, big bass, small bass, evil or saintly commercials etc etc etc Anyone have any idea what will/could/should happen in 2013 (give or take a year!) when "we" (commercial / rsa/ "hybrid"/fun fisher on summer holiday: ie UK fishers ) have to stand up and scrap for the last of our fishing limits? The "should" camp will no doubt be most vocal, as usual , but its the lack of the "could" and "will" camp atm that worries me.

No. It will give little back to sea-anglers while tying them into a revenue stream for a toad with a very big mouth. That toad will evolve and evolve. A lot of the "information" anglers are getting is coming from people the are either obsessed with a single species, or are greens that happen to fish. Just MO So sell this idea to me?! I live in the Ne of Scotland, I shore fish the same marks i did 30 yrs ago, and i catch fish! I now kayak fish a fair bit and i catch lots of fish but still pretty much use the same old same jigging feathers/lures on the drift I ever did. I read the mags, read the forums, have picked up a couple of excellent ideas, but on the whole nought much has changed. Exactly what is so good that I sign up for giving up my freedom to fish as i like for an ever changing contract with politicians and civil servants?

How does he find the time to be an expert on everything from Nuclear power to fisheries? Never mind nanny knows best, its really London that knows best? Simple question for George and Leon; name the species that UK, or lets be generous and say any, commercial fishermen have driven to extinction? Given the horrendous loss of freshwater species as Chinese/thai/malayasian factories rush to build fishing tackle, blenders, mixers, name your desire.... Its surely fair that those pointing to the " evil commercials" and their "destruction" of our world can actually back it up? From all i've read or seen they can't.

Hi Eoghain, Do you intend to include S.O.T. yaks, and the people diving and fishing from them in Scotland ,among your reports on the latest and greatest assault on Outer Mongolia? Chris

Hi Brian, Is that for salmon / seatrout or whitefish? If its whitefish, is it in your opinion, an important issue for those stocks ? Chris

There are clearly conflicting accounts about the extent to which anglers/unlicensed charters do or do not sell on their catches down south and that seems to be the thing generating calls for legislation to combat this "problem". This has never as far as i'm aware at least, ever been a problem up here (NE Scotland), in fact just the reverse in that things like the buyers and sellers legislation has only driven smaller businesses to the wall and increased the sense in "going big". We now apparently (newspaper stories) have the craziness of small firms in Mallaig (a main west coast landing port) who used to drag a box of fish from quay to restaurant, now having to send that fish south and the restaurant then buying from billingsgate and having it trucked back north! That would be fine if it served to protect Mallaigs fish stocks but given i have never heard anyone say their is a problem with unlicenced landings there then it gets hard to understand what its about? Chris

Thats the way the quota system has led things right enough. But all is not yet lost surely? Despite everything a lot of quota still feeds back to the local communities. eg in Shetland the Pelagic skippers (who would be top of the money/quota pile) have invested in their local areas and have not sold out and buggered off to live a rich mans life in Dubai or the Bahamas A big issue for islands like that that if their kids see things differently; which no doubt they will.... IMHO a council in an area like that should have ownership of quota. Plenty has been said by RSA reps about how "we" , "the public" "own" our fishstocks but its not reality; i can't imagine many government s going to court to defend that unless votes depend on it and in most the Uk they don't. The under tens have every reason to feel upset that they cannot fill a box with mackerel and sell it, while a Scottish pelagic trawler can take 2000 tonnes in a night, but it was the government that set up the system, and i doubt any of the pelagic skippers would lose sleep over the under tens being able to take whatever they wanted ? FWIW its worth Barry, i think that the most ironic thing is that it will be fuel prices that will reduce effort, just like it was always going to be; yet when effort was at a max in the 1980's legislation was no where to stop it (just the revererse with grants to make more boats), yet the hoo haa for all this control comes 30 yrs later just as the obvious happens! Chris

Looks like a minister that thinks in terms of combine harvesters rather than lawnmowers

Might be a nice idea, and i used to think it as well; but its 20 years too late and irrelevant for most places in the UK now. Government regulation may well annihilate whats left of the UK commercials ( and a lot of our angling freedoms at the same time, IMHO) but the sheer stupidity of it all will see all our fish-stocks owned by people we have little control or say over. Chris

and yet we still have huge amounts of herring and the stocks are healthy. How can this be? It still amazes me that not one sea species is extinct, but it still attracts all the interest of the media and chattering idiots yet species after species goes extinct everyday, out of sight, out of mind, in freshwater habitats. Its a funny old world. What was happening with the herrings food during this period of evil human interference HA?

That people should starve by turning our food resources into a playground and just import all the food from areas we don't see/care about , and of course export all our problems and waste (as a kind favour of course in return ? Wonderful.

You seem to be confusing fish stock health and jobs HA. "Denial and diversion" ? Given that you never answer a question and always go straight for the hate stuff then perhaps you need to look at your "reality" ? Still waiting for your account of what happened to the east coast herring