RSPB BIG GARDEN BIRDWATCH ALTERNATIVE REPLY

[RUDD]

The 24th and 25th Jan 2004 was the RSPBs big garden birdwatch.

I did submit a proper survey on the website : The bird survey

I also submitted a survey under the name of the angry fisherman with an address near to Alton water, near Ipswich Suffolk.

I did not mark down any species as being seen and as cormorants were not listed I put the following in the comments box:

 

There were about 80 cormorants on my lake which should not be there as they are sea birds. They are also a threat to native species like Grebes or Kingfishers as they are taking to many fish.

When are you going to admit the damage these alien birds are doing to inland waterways, fisheries and eco systems.

Native species of fish such as Dace and Roach are now under threat due to the amount that cormorants eat in a day (approx 2 to 3 pounds per bird) which in turn is causing their natural predators, Perch and Pike to also start to come under threat.

 

You soon approved culls on Hedgehogs and Ruddy Ducks that threatend native birds so why not approve a cull on cormorants which are a very big threat to all fish eating birds and every species of fish in the UK.

[StuMac]

I'm sure this is a very constructive approach to take. It is, after all, very important not to give the impression of being a raving lunatic.

 

The inland cormorents in the UK are not sea birds. There has always been a strain of inland cormorent in mainland europe and they have decided to come here and they are definately a pest. British cormorents are still on the coast just like they've always been.

 

It's important to realise that birds do not just up stakes and fly across the channel for no reason. They've come here 'cos there's free food to be had in the form of densly stocked fisheries in certain areas of the the South of England / midlands. Their effect is not as widespread as people think - anglers in the fens / broads are complaining that there are so many roach, bream, dace around that the pike are getting hard to catch. Charlie Bettel recons they should send cormorents his way!

 

Probably the best way to get rid of Cormorents is to have a 10 year ban on the stocking of rainbow trout into reservoirs. Once this artficially high food source is gone, their numbers will fall. If people want to fish these sorts of waters then they'll have to accept that they are affecting the natural balence of the countryside (or what's left of it).

 

Shoot as many as you like, scream for a cul as loud as you like - it won't make the blindest bit of difference 'cos cormorents actually compete for feeding sites. Bit like grouse compete for space on the moors - shoot ten today and, in a good year, ten more birds will fly onto the moore to be shot the next day. Same with cormorents, blow 10 birds away at your local reservoir and another 10 will come along to fill their places.

 

The fact that there's so much food means that breeding is very succesful so there are plenty more where they came from. Smashing eggs will also have little effect, they are long lived (20 - 30 years) and so,if the population is to remain stable two birds have to hatch two chicks in this time. If you have birds on a perpetual feeding frenzie combined with very mild weather thenn breeding is a lot more succesful thyan that. You have to keep up the culling / egg smashing for decades to have any effect.

 

Sudden increases in bird populations are not unheard of. Many cities in the NE of England had major problems with urban sea birds (Kitiwakes in particular, which most people think of as 'nice' birds) in the late 60s early 70s. They were a huge problem and nothnig anyone did seemed to have any effect.

 

Pike anglers are always telling people, the density of prey determines the density of predators and so don't waste time and money on pike culs as they have bugger all effect.

 

I'm affraid its the same with birds!

[RUDD]

If you recon we won't get rid of them that easily why cant we shoot them legaly?

 

The roach population on Alton water is now almost non existant.

Most of the bream caught average 4lb and have wounds and scars.

The surviving fish are spawning every year but any small fish soon get eaten.

[Leon Roskilly]

Lots of cormorant facts here:

 

 

http://web.tiscali.it/no-redirect-tiscali/...mo_news/eu1.htm

 

http://web.tiscali.it/no-redirect-tiscali/...mo_news/uk4.htm

 

http://web.tiscali.it/no-redirect-tiscali/...v2001/index.htm

 

 

Tight Lines - leon

 

[ 02. February 2004, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: Leon Roskilly ]

[peter mccue]

Stumac,

 

'Shoot as many as you like, scream for a cul as loud as you like - it won't make the blindest bit of difference 'cos cormorents actually compete for feeding sites. Bit like grouse compete for space on the moors - shoot ten today and, in a good year, ten more birds will fly onto the moore to be shot the next day. Same with cormorents, blow 10 birds away at your local reservoir and another 10 will come along to fill their places.'

 

 

In theory correct, In practice untrue.

 

Cormorants are not stupid birds, they soon recognise danger areas & leave them alone en masse. Problem is someone else gets the b****rs.

[fenboy]

I feel a bit uneasy with the cormorants-eat-fish = therefore-they-are-our-enemy equation.

 

Gamekeepers used to say that about any bird of prey... and destroyed them all.

 

Certain match/club anglers used to (and still do) apply the same logic to pike.

 

Lots of cormorants on my local river, but no shortage of fish.

 

Methinks the cormorants need the fish rather more than I do.

 

And, screaming for a cormorant cull doesn't do us any favours with the non-angling public.

 

Just my opinion.

[Jon Hedges]

I am with you, Fenboy. As I have stated before, radomly killing these birds (annoying and harmful as they are) is not ethical given that all they want to do is eat.

Someone, somewhere must know how we can (humanely)rid ourselves of this menace ! Perhaps some sort of gadget which emits high pitched noise (much like a dog whistle) which can't be heard by humans (and fish !!) but will annoy the birds enough so that they'll bugger off ! I am not well versed in bird biology, perhaps you scientists out there can devise an answer .... it'll make you a bob or two !!

[wunnus]

I am no fan of the cormorant.

But part of the problem has to be that the fish have no where to hide. I can think of long sections in my local rivers that offer no protection once the weed has died back. My local river is about half as full as it was when it was a canal. The bed is silting up slowly. On some local rivers there is a policy of keeping the channel clear. Diggers etc. It seems to be the kiss of death for the fish.

 

I enjoy fishing around features that make it hard to get the fish out. Perhaps the louts who put the shopping trolleys in the river do the fish a favour.

[RUDD]

I think you are all missing my point.

 

I am trying to show how two faced people like the RSPB are.

 

People like them soon approve this and that to get what they want or for their own purposes but don't seem to give a monkies about others or the bigger picture.

 

All I am asking is why we the RSPB do not think cormorants are a problem on inland water systems.

[Chris Playle]

RUDD:

All I am asking is why we the RSPB do not think cormorants are a problem on inland water systems.

Because in a great many cases Cormorants are NOT the problem. As is the case in most "natural" disasters, it's the intervention of man on nature that is the catalyst for such events.

 

Why do you think it is, RUDD, that the birds are coming inland in the first place ??

 

Don't know ???

 

Take this simple scenario. It's Friday night, it's chippy night. The chippy at the end of the road is closed. Nightmare. You're starving....hang on, you remember that the chippy three streets away is open. It's not your regular chippy but your hungry and it's not THAT far away...and to be honest the fish from there are so big and tasty...What do you do ??

 

It's the same with the Cormorants. The chippy at the end of their road is closed....they're looking elsewhere.

 

In terms of looking at the big picture, I think you'll find you ARE looking at the bigger picture.....only you're in the wrong gallery.

 

The RSPB will have perfromed detailed surveys on the Cormorants to make sure they're not pushing out any native birds who might also eat fish (Herons and Grebes spring to mind). At this present moment in time, I don't think there appears to be a threat from the Cormorants since the RSPB haven't issued any order for a cull of the birds. They're probably diverting resources to putting right what man has been doing wrong to the sea and estuaries for years in an effort to attract the birds back to their native habitats.

 

Probably another reason why the RSPB hasn't issued an order to cull Cormorants is that, most of the angling press and those who are fundamentally misinformed appear to have a burning hatred of the Cormorant and any order to cull will result in a free for all. Every muppet who can hold a gun and shoot Cormorants (and those who haven't a clue what a Cormorant looks like but will shoot it if it flies just in case it was a Cormorant) will be out filling the sky with lead. Very few birds will live to tell the tale. The tables will turn and the Cormorant will become endangered.

 

Tight lines.

 

Chris.