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Angling Trust Announces Restructuring

Anglers' Net

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barry luxton Member

barry luxton

Posted
Posted (edited)
I think the restrictions on cormorant control should perhaps be relaxed. They're a pest species on inland waters and I would like to see them thinned out, at least in my part of the world. Otter populations on the other hand should only be managed on a sustainable basis.

 

Dunno, that could be classed as interfearing with nature couldn't it. Why would you class cormorant's as pests. You could say the same for seagulls, when they swoop down and nick some of the chips, your trying to eat. You could say the same regarding the percieved actions of some of east europeons, would you like to see restrictions on them.

Edited by barry luxton

Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.


New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.

Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.

Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.

new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.

Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are..

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Worms Member

Worms

Posted
Posted (edited)
I think the restrictions on cormorant control should perhaps be relaxed. They're a pest species on inland waters and I would like to see them thinned out, at least in my part of the world. Otter populations on the other hand should only be managed on a sustainable basis. I think everyone would like to see them whilst out and about on the river, but if they're numbers become a problem on ceratain stretches then measures should be put in place to to trap them and harvest the pelts. It's a fact that each pelt is worth over a £100 on ebay. If it's got to be done then it makes sense to do it commercially. More so than just killing the creature and throwing it's body in a ditch. Cyclists on canal toe paths ... carry on and ignore those selfish anglers ...

Cormorants are present on inland waterways because their natural fishing grounds have been damaged (by man) Fortunately for cormorants man has been stupid enough to fill every waterbody he can find with fish and then anglers go and fatten them up with expensive groundbait ready for the cormorants to have a good feed!

 

Otters are protected under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (plus amendments) and are classed under Schedule 5 whereby the receive protection under "Section 9.5 a selling, offering for sale, possessing or transporting for the purpose of sale (live or dead animal, part or derivative) and Section 9.5 b advertising for buying or selling such things".

 

So any skins being offered for sale on Ebay need to be reported and those selling such items will probably be breaking CITES legislation as well. Potentially huge fines and/or prison sentences await those who buy or sell!

 

Otter populations are self regulating!

Edited by Worms

Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

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Steve Coppolo Member

Steve Coppolo

Posted
Posted
I think the restrictions on cormorant control should perhaps be relaxed. They're a pest species on inland waters and I would like to see them thinned out, at least in my part of the world. Otter populations on the other hand should only be managed on a sustainable basis. I think everyone would like to see them whilst out and about on the river, but if they're numbers become a problem on ceratain stretches then measures should be put in place to to trap them and harvest the pelts. It's a fact that each pelt is worth over a £100 on ebay. If it's got to be done then it makes sense to do it commercially. More so than just killing the creature and throwing it's body in a ditch. Cyclists on canal toe paths ... carry on and ignore those selfish anglers ...

 

The trouble is, when angling starts calling for bans and culls on this that and the other, sooner or later, various groups and bodies who canoe and cycle, or who actually like cormorants and otters, will see that the common problem, really, is anglers!

DRUNK DRIVERS WRECK LIVES.

 

Don't drink and drive.

 

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barry luxton Member

barry luxton

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Cormorants are present on inland waterways because their natural fishing grounds have been damaged (by man)

 

Are comorants primerily sea birds then? If so do you consider esturies and tidal rivers have been cleaned out to force these birds into fresh water. Even so could freshwater anglers also be at fault for feeding the freshwater fish, ground bait, to encourage the comorants inland.

 

You could also argue that if cormorants appear to become pests, that could mean the environment they are in is in fact healthy, why then try to fix something that ain't broken.

Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.


New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.

Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.

Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.

new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.

Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are..

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Worms Member

Worms

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Posted
Are comorants primerily sea birds then? If so do you consider esturies and tidal rivers have been cleaned out to force these birds into fresh water. Even so could freshwater anglers also be at fault for feeding the freshwater fish, ground bait, to encourage the comorants inland.

 

You could also argue that if cormorants appear to become pests, that could mean the environment they are in is in fact healthy, why then try to fix something that ain't broken.

Yes cormorants in this country are, or were primarily seabirds. Only as recently as the early 90's there was only one breeding colony of cormorants inland although colonies of cormorants did form inland during very hard winters. Not something we've had a lot of recently! From memory, to see a cormorant flying inland (Herefordshire/Worcestershire) prior to that was very unusual. Now they are not unusual and near me there is a large breeding colony near some recently created and stocked ponds (coarse fish). I'm sure other areas of the country may be different but, I live near to two large tidal rivers (Severn and Wye) and I don't see a problem with cormorants on natural fisheries.

 

I don't see cormorants as pests! They are quite happy eating fish from stocked ponds that I don't fish. The areas of the rivers that I fish are quite free of them! My answer to Andy Youngs' post was against culling or other controls.

Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

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barry luxton Member

barry luxton

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Gawd i was kin usless yesterday Worms, first time iv'e bin aboard and caught dog fish and kin pout with one whiting. Gonna have to either give up fishing, or step up me game. Don't take any advise from me until i improve. :wacko::headhurt:

 

I know i think i'll become a rep instead :lol:

Edited by barry luxton

Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.


New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.

Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.

Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.

new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.

Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are..

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Worms Member

Worms

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Posted
Gawd i was kin usless yesterday Worms, first time iv'e bin aboard and caught dog fish and kin pout with one whiting. Gonna have to either give up fishing, or step up me game. Don't take any advise from me until i improve. :wacko::headhurt:

 

I know i think i'll become a rep instead :lol:

I shouldn't get too upset Barry, even I only managed a handful of pollack and about two dozen whiting on friday! :P

 

I blame it on the cormorants B)

Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

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andy_youngs Member

andy_youngs

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Posted (edited)
any skins being offered for sale on Ebay need to be reported and those selling such items will probably be breaking CITES legislation as well. Potentially huge fines and/or prison sentences await those who buy or sell!

 

Otter populations are self regulating!

The pelts I'm referring to come from Canada and the USA, and as far I'm aware it's not illegal to buy them, as long as you pay the import duties.

 

Certainly the case with beavers is that the authorities will issue trapping licenses on certain rivers. The number of animals that can be taken varies from year to year, and from river catchment to river catchment to ensure that over-exploitation is avoided. It's presumably the same with otters. Whilst I agree the european otter lutra lutra enjoys protection from CITIES at the moment, I'm not sure if their cousins across the pond are quite so fortunate. In any event, the CITIES agreement still allows for a certain number of protected species to be culled in specific parts of the world.

 

There's definitely no shortage of pelts being offered for sale by some very large established companies, and most of them will happily advertise that they ship world wide. Bear in mind that it's only in parts of Western Europe where the whole subject is a bit taboo. Go to Scandanavia, Russia, China, Canada and the States and the fur trade is still very big business. If you want to complain about it to ebay Worms, fine go ahead, but I don't think you'll get very far.

 

Personally, I don't care that much about it. My view is that as long as its done properly, ie, at a level that is sustainable and minimises suffering to the animal, I don't see that killing an animal for its fur is essentially any different to killing it for its hide or its meat. OK, there's something a bit obsene about wearing fur in a hot climate purely as a fashion accessory. But for those who live in a cold climate its viewed as a vital natural resource.

 

I agree that it's illegal to kill a wild otter in the UK at the moment, and whilst populations are re-establishing themselves that is obviously the correct policy to adopt.

 

But I'm not sure that I agree with the statement that populations of species such as otters and cormorants are self regulating, when humans are interfering with the natural balance with artificially stocked fisheries, man-made spawning riffles etc.

 

I can see a point in the future when a convincing case could be made, not just by anglers but by a whole range of people involved in countryside management, for the reintroduction of some sort of control. After all, deer culling is widespread, and most people would accept that this is necessary to ensure the overall health of the natural population.

 

The reality is that when fur farming was banned in this country a few years back it had the effect of mollifying the anti's in the UK, but made not one jot of difference to the fur trade.

 

The fur farms simply moved to Canada and Scandanavia, and we in the UK now trade more fur than at any other time in our history - its just a commodity that is bought and sold through the City of London, the same as oil and property.

Edited by andy_youngs

never try and teach a pig to sing .... it wastes your time and it annoys the pig

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Worms Member

Worms

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Hmmm, all of a sudden you've gone from culling of cormorants and management of otters in the UK to foreign fur trades. I don't quite understand the reasoning behind that.

 

You didn't make it clear thet the otter pelts on Ebay were from abroad, in fact the implication was that they were from the UK

Otter populations on the other hand should only be managed on a sustainable basis. I think everyone would like to see them whilst out and about on the river, but if they're numbers become a problem on ceratain stretches then measures should be put in place to to trap them and harvest the pelts. It's a fact that each pelt is worth over a £100 on ebay. If it's got to be done then it makes sense to do it commercially. More so than just killing the creature and throwing it's body in a ditch.

Obviously The WCA 1981 has absolutely no control over foreign countries but I thought we were talking about UK concerns here?!

 

But I'm not sure that I agree with the statement that populations of species such as otters and cormorants are self regulating, when humans are interfering with the natural balance with artificially stocked fisheries, man-made spawning riffles etc.

You said it yourself, Humans are interfering! The animals are just doing what comes naturally. Any top predator is limited by food availability otters are no different. I didn't refer to cormorants, but they too are limited by food supply, they just have an advantage over most terrestrial or aquatic predators..........wings!

Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

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andy_youngs Member

andy_youngs

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Posted (edited)
Hmmm, all of a sudden you've gone from culling of cormorants and management of otters in the UK to foreign fur trades. I don't quite understand the reasoning behind that.

Come on Worms, I'm just trying to justify a statement that I made in an earlier post which has clearly sparked off a bit of debate

 

You didn't make it clear thet the otter pelts on Ebay were from abroad, in fact the implication was that they were from the UK

Sorry mate, didn't mean to mislead anyone. My meaning was that on the international market an otter pelt is worth over £100, and anyone can buy / sell on ebay. The world is a very small place these days.

 

Obviously The WCA 1981 has absolutely no control over foreign countries but I thought we were talking about UK concerns here?!

We are talking about UK concerns. If the law is wrong then change it.

 

You said it yourself, Humans are interfering! The animals are just doing what comes naturally. Any top predator is limited by food availability otters are no different. I didn't refer to cormorants, but they too are limited by food supply, they just have an advantage over most terrestrial or aquatic predators..........wings!

Agreed. Given that we're interfering, often at great expense to the taxpayer, then why not do it properly? If we're allocating large amounts of taxpayer's money to creating artificial fisheries (which we seem to be doing), then shouldn't we also be questioning whether it's fair to squander this expenditure by allowing preditory species to run rampant? One further point, otters and cormorants aren't at the top of food chain, we are.

Edited by andy_youngs

never try and teach a pig to sing .... it wastes your time and it annoys the pig

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