Big Carp

[Nugg]

Golden Phoenix:

Hi I'm new to this forum, this may have been asked before but...

 

Are we being fair to Carp? As you may know Carp are bigger & heavier than ever before. Is this a Health risk to the fish? Do we over use Commercial, unnatural baits? Is the solution to restrict the use, the quantity, or the or the ingredients of these baits. Are we being selfish?

Don't think so

don't know not a carp fisherman, more of a crap fisherman.

Bound to be.

Yep we/they do.

Yep.

We all are,when a bigun is involved

[Golden Phoenix]

Soz about the mistake miasma I just looked at one of my old Angler's Mail mag's and saw Gary Bayes Carp and thought what a Cloncker but I was a plonker.

[miasma]

GP...no need to apologise mate and I certainly

dont think you are a plonker...indeed I thought

your original question very valid.

Be Lucky!....miasma..

[Golden Phoenix]

Well put sam, I also think it should be the fishery owners. They could test food on carp an find a solution to balance the diet of certain carp species.

 

[ 16 June 2002, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: Golden Phoenix ]

[Newt]

GP - the big UK carp I see pictures of do have a gut that would do a human glutton proud. And I wondered about the same thing.

 

OTOH, given the age of some of your larger carp, they certainly can't be taking harm from whatever makes them grow so large.

 

And they certainly can grow large without being fed by anglers. The US carp (Mississippi) at 74lbs was unusual only in that most of our large ones are further north where the water is cooler. Still, that fella had never been fed before other than what it could forage.

[singy]

There is a big differnect between UK and US carp. Most of our carp have been bred in the past for the table, this means faster, larger growing strains with fewer scales to make it easier to clean. i.e the mirror.

 

Generally the mirrors we get over here these days are not how you would find them in wild breading populations. If you look at redmire for an example. The original stocking consisted of mainly mirror carp. Over the years after successfull breeding, the carp have reverted to their more natural condition. Common and very well proportioned. Not many, if any mirrors are left in Redmire. Look at our rivers, these have never really received stockings of carp and the fish are proportioned accordingly.

 

I don't believe generally it is anglers baits that make a fish big. It is genetics. I actually think that angling pressure reduces the abilities of carp to grow to their full potential, especially if they are angled for in their first 10-15 years of life. Look at two tone in conningbrook, the early Redmire fish. They grew up in peace and reached 40lb plus without help.

 

This is also the reason why I think carp in countries with a similar climate to ours generally grow bigger.

 

Singy

[Golden Phoenix]

Perhaps we could make this an international apeal to anglers and fishery owners.

[Steve Burke]

First of all I must declare an interest as I'm a fishery manager.

 

Secondly, I think it important to differentiate between commercial fisheries and natural waters. The vast majority, if not all, of commercial fisheries are overstocked. In come cases grossly overstocked. These fish therefore have to rely upon artifical feeding, normally from anglers' baits. It's therefore important that the fish get a balanced diet. Many fishery managers recognise this, and no manager worth his salt is going to let his fish come to any harm - if only to protect his investment.

 

However, the level of knowledge amongst fishery managers varies a great deal. Many have no formal training, which is not in itself a bad thing - provided they take professional advice from an expert who has, such as our own Bruno Broughton. I have to say that Bruno's advice has been invaluable to me and worth every penny I've paid him.

 

Fisheries like my own at Wingham are totally different to commercial waters. The idea is to to grow very big fish and thus the stocking densities are very much lower. This means that the fish's diet consists almost entirely of natural food with anglers' baits providing only a small proportion of the fish's needs. Thus restrictions on bait are therefore inappropriate at Wingham.

 

The only exception is nuts. This is not because they are dangerous if not prepared properly. All my members are vetted and so this isn't a problem. Rather it's because, whilst carp in particular love them, the fish gain little nutritional benefit from nuts. This means that whilst their guts are full of nuts there's no room for better quality food and so the growth rate of the fish is adversely affected - possibly to the point where they cease growing.

[Steve Burke]

I very much agree with Newt and Singy about carp growing big on natural food.

 

What I feel is vital is lack of fishing pressure during the first 15 years or so of the life of the fish when they are growing in length. Look at the last 3 record carp venues: Redmire, Wraysbury and Conninbrook. All these waters had very little pressure whilst the carp were young. (Yes, I know Mary spent the first few years at a different water, but it too was unpressurised I understand).

 

Interestingly I've just read Tim Paisley's book "Big Carp". In it there's an interview with Rod Hutchinson, who was asked why British carp don't generally grow as big as in some areas of Northern Europe, despite the climate being colder there. Rod replied it was purely down to fishing pressure. He explained that good carp anglers quickly work out where the richest feeding areas are, and the fish almost as quickly learn to avoid them. They are therefore forced to second-rate areas where the pickings aren't so rich and thus their growth rate suffers.

 

Additionally, I believe that if fish are wary about picking up baits they eat less in a given time and thus once again their growth rate gets hit.

 

What about fish putting on weight from anglers baiting up with boilies I can hear many of you say?

 

Firstly, I believe even many gravel pits are overstocked and so the fish have insufficient food to reach huge weights. Big weights yes, but not their full potential. Extra bait going in can then be beneficial.

 

Secondly, I believe that extra fishing pressure often has more of a negative impact than the positive benefit of more bait going. This is especially so whilst the fish are growing in length. After 15 years or so of age the fish can still put on girth and thus weight, but at a much slower rate. It is then that boilies could well have a very positive contribution to weight gain.

 

It's for this reason that I greatly restrict fishing pressure at Wingham. As a result little bait goes in. Yet the fish have grown at a fantastic rate to say the least. The vast majority of this weight gain will have been on natural food, of which Wingham has a super abundance - as those who attended last weekend's fish-in soon found out!

[Golden Phoenix]

Steve, it's nice to have a fishery manager on this topic, all we need now is a carp's point of veiw and we have everybody's veiw. I would also like to add that it sounds like your fishery is a example to many fisheries.