Pike - Traces

[The Diamond Geezer]

Nugg:

Geez

Me thinks you misunderstand what I was saying, I certainly would not go to the length of using 60lb line, I in fact use 18lb braid and 25lb wire, which I consider to be most adequate, and I use a 2.5tc rod. I would not suggest that 60lb line is used in fact, I think 30 lb is a little over the top.

Nugg

 

Well, I think for an experienced piker like yourself who clearly knows what's-what, I agree with you that 18 lb braid and 25 lb wire is OK.

 

For a newcomer though, surely it's better to use mainline and wire that's "a little over the top" (e.g. 30 lb BS :confused: ) just to be safe rather than sorry, and if you're lure-fishing, then at least you'll get more lures back from those snags

DG :cool:

 

[ 30. March 2003, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: The Diamond Geezer ]

[grumpybum]

There were a few glaring omissions in the above posts. 30 lb line this would be braid and not nylon. The figures of 30lb braid and 15lb BS mono is the norm and is accepted as such by all the well known pikers.

Using 16lb and 18lb bs braid is akin to using 6 or 8lb mono and is not acceptable. The minimum BS of braid when piking should be 30lb.

As far as trace wire is concerned this is very likely to kink during the fight, consequently it makes sense to use a strong wire ie a minimum of 20lb bs.

Pike are a very delicate fish and the fact that the right tackle used will subdue them before they become exhausted is the right way to go

[The Diamond Geezer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by grumpybum:

There were a few glaring omissions in the above posts. 30 lb line this would be braid and not nylon. The figures of 30lb braid and 15lb BS mono is the norm and is accepted as such by all the well known pikers.

 

Using 16lb and 18lb bs braid is akin to using 6 or 8lb mono and is not acceptable. The minimum BS of braid when piking should be 30lb.

 

As far as trace wire is concerned this is very likely to kink during the fight, consequently it makes sense to use a strong wire ie a minimum of 20lb bs.

 

Pike are a very delicate fish and the fact that the right tackle used will subdue them before they become exhausted is the right way to go

---

Grumpy,

 

It's glaringly obvious that you need to re-read the postings (not just mine) above, more carefully ! :mad:

 

Also, for starting-out (e.g. Jason and his original posting/question), there's no earthly reason why he/one shouldn't use a mono rather than braid, especially if cost is an issue. Also it's a lot more forgiving for newcomers to the sport because most monos have greater elastic elongation under stress.

 

Also, you appear to be confusing nylon (your word, no-one else's on this thread!) with the generic term mono, meaning monofilament. A line may be a nylon mono, but of course not all monos are nylon ... there are co-polymer monos, fluorocarbon monos etc.

 

I should also repeat that Nev Ficking has caught more 20+ lb pike than anyone-else, ever, (including you!) and I am not aware that he feels the need to use a minimum of 30 lb BS mainline all the time.

 

However, it is, as I and others have already said above, a good idea to use 30 lb mainline (mono or braid) and a similar BS wire when starting-out pike fishing especially if you're fishing snaggy venues.

 

DG

 

[ 30. March 2003, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: The Diamond Geezer ]

[grumpybum]

Diamond geezer its obvious you need to re read my post, where in do I state that you should use 30lb bs mono or nylon? Braid yes nylon/mono no. Perhaps your using boat rods like back in the old days, if so is it a 20lb or 30 lb class outfit your using. It was nice to see that your casual name dropping also states that he doesnt feel the need to use 30lb bs strain line either.

Every article book etc I have read and most club rules if there is one, state a minimum of 15lb bs line. If my math is correct then 18/20lb bs nylon/mono is the maximum line strength that most manufacturers would suggest with any pike rod with a TC of 3lb.

Using 30lb bs nylon/mono is going to be good for the profits of the tackle trade in supplying new rods.

[Dunk Fairley]

I'm pretty sure if you ask Neville, he'll recommend that 30lb should be the minimum used, if the main line is BRAID. Where a braid is going to come in for a lot of hammering, such as when "Jerk-bait" fishing, you should think about going as high as 60 or even 100lb braid.

 

As a PAC member for many years, Neville would no doubt stand by the reccomendation of 15lb as a minimum for "mono". By "mono", I mean any line maid of ONE strand of material, be it nylon, co-polymer or whatever.

 

In the UK, the vast majority of lines are rated in the way that the test strain stated, is actually the MINIMUM at which a line will break. They (the manufacturers) will usually reccomend a type of knot as well, but not always. The knot suggested, will be the one at which the line was tested.

 

With lines such as Gold Label, "Pro-Gold", they say that it is good to use with most usual types of knot. That means they have tested it, with knots like the Blood Knot, Palomar, Grinner etc. During those tests, it broke at, or above the stated breaking strain.

 

Be safe, use 15lb+ mono, use 30lb+ braid.

 

Stefan, how about contacting the Pike Angler's Club (Linked through the SAA website) and ask if they know anyone organising a "Teach-in". Often, you can go along and have a day with a "seasoned" pike angler, who'll show you a few tricks. If you are anywhere near Kent, I'd be pleased to take you out for a day, if you can wait 'til June.

[The Diamond Geezer]

Originally posted by Dunk Fairley:

In the UK, the vast majority of lines are rated in the way that the test strain stated, is actually the MINIMUM at which a line will break

 

Dunk,

 

You're fooling yourself if you believe that! Suggest you read Dave Barham's brilliant Line (Mono & Braids) Tests here and here at AN

 

Also, apart from the diameter, and the issue of abrasion resistance, the logic of your idea of using 15 lb mono or 30 lb braid completely escapes me :confused: Why the different breaking stresses?

 

If as you say, the vast majority of lines in the UK are rated as you suggest. please name ones that have a statement, claim or rating on the box or spool that the Breaking Stress is the MINIMUM WET KNOT STRENGTH ... after all, you can't fish without knotting your line or without getting it wet!

 

DG

 

[ 30. March 2003, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: The Diamond Geezer ]

[Nugg]

Come on Guys

All the bloke asked was why stronger end tackle was needed for pike. Now youv'e got him thinking that he should be using a rope and a cable to catch them, this is a sport not a tug'o'war, if you get your lure caught on a snag thats down to you and experience, if you can't get it back.

As for pulling a pike straight in on a very strong line, I think it much more prudent to tire it a bit rather than have it thrashing about in the net or when its on the bank, it wont harm itself so much.

[The Diamond Geezer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nugg:

All the bloke asked was why stronger end tackle was needed for pike.

---

Actually, Nugg, what the bloke actually asked was

"Why is a stonger trace used than the main line?

 

I said that it's the trace that takes most of the punishment at the bait or lure end of things!

 

I still think that if Stefan is planning to go pike-fishing (with deadbait or lure) for the very first time (with mono or braid main-line), it would be more than a tad irresponsible to fish with 15 lb BS mainline and/or wire. It's not snags you have to worry about, it's the welfare of the pike and no-one likes to lose a tussle that leaves a hook in a fish, and pike have a habit of legging-it to the nearest snag if they get half a chance!

 

DG :cool:

 

[ 30. March 2003, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: The Diamond Geezer ]

[Dunk Fairley]

The reason you should fish with a stronger braid, is because it has little or no stretch. Mono (usually) will stretch quite a lot, before it comes close to it's breaking strength, wet or dry.

 

It's pretty much the same, as if you were to use a broom handle to try and fish. There is no shock absorbtion, so the line would receive more of a shock when pulled, making it break easier. So, you use a rod, which bends and softens the impact.

[grumpybum]

Theres one glaring error in the braid tests carried out. A blood knot for use with braid????? This is the last knot for use with braid. To me this completley rates all these tests as useless. I would also feel inclined to question the authors credentials in cattying out these tests.