Question for pike experts

[Pangolin]

Does a pike always turn a deadbait, to swallow it head-first, and, if it does, what are the implications about how the deadbait should be mounted on the snap-tackle? I'd have thought you'd minimise the risk of deep-hooking if the trebles were set points-towards the head, or at least, with the hooks in the tail of the bait only?

[Peter Waller]

No good asking here then Pangolin!!

 

No, a pike doesn't always turn a deadbait. Since it is dead it doesn't need to take it athwartship so to speak, although I suppose it does sometimes out of habit.

 

I sometimes fish a local lake where lure angling would be a tad conspicuos so deadbaiting it has to be. It is gin clear and bite indication tends to be by observation. Its been fascinating watching what goes on.

 

It is generally accepted that a pike takes a dead head first and so it appears. That being the case I would normally put by first hook through the root of the tail, and the second about half way along. Hooking through the root does mean that the bait is unlikely to come off on the strike, as some folk like, but it stays on on the cast. It does mean that the bait is in the pikes mouth with the hook away from the back of the throat. So yes, you are right in your thoughts. The hook near the head dates back to the old Jardine snap tackle days. I didn't think anyone hooked a bait that way nowadays. Even using half baits, as I do, it appears to be eyes first, or tail last! When using a head I see no reason why a single treble can't be used. But that might be because my halves tend to be one third head and two thirds tail!

 

[ 17. January 2004, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: Peter Waller ]

[Wordbender]

I spent my entire young life around the pits, streams and rivers of Horton and I've watched pike attack many, many times. My syndicate water is gin-clear for periods of the year and I've also seen pike hit my baits.

 

Many have simply grabbed the bait sideways and moved off, either at pace or in a leisurely fashion, possibly to move away from the 'strike zone' to an area of safety where the bait would be turned for swallowing. I worked in the aquatics trade for a while and was a hobbyist for years, and I've seen this 'grab, move, turn' behaviour from many kinds of predatory fish.

 

I've also seen baits hit where the pike barely moves away, but begins its swallowing procedure on the spot. It is for this reason that I hit a run at the very first opportunity and, like Peter, never put a treble more than half-way along a deadbait.

 

Hitting runs this early may have cost me fish, but 20 missed runs don't justify a deeply-hooked pike. I don't actually mean to sound as self-righteous as this post paints me, but hitting 'em early really IS just a matter of basic fish care teamed with a bit of understanding.

 

Sermon over.

 

Terry

[Lee-sox]

quote:

---

Hitting runs this early may have cost me fish, but 20 missed runs don't justify a deeply-hooked pike. I don't actually mean to sound as self-righteous as this post paints me, but hitting 'em early really IS just a matter of basic fish care teamed with a bit of understanding

---

Well said, my thoughts exactly

[Nugg]

The subject is covered here with illustrations. Just click on baits.

 

hooklinks.co.uk/pike/navigation...tml?=pike1.html

 

I some times think that the streamline effect of the bait fish may have an effect, as the Pike sucks it in, then there is, the effect of any drag resistance of the trace etc., the size of the bait, the water flow, how the bait is presented, all this goes to show that there is no real hard and fast rule, just a general rule.

[fenboy]

I'm no pike expert, but please allow me to express a few observations here...

 

When I used to do a lot of deadbaiting, and when half-mackerel was very much the vogue on waters I was fishing, I noticed that other anglers tended to use the tails only and discarded the heads... usually chucking them away into the water. Reasoning that the pike were enjoying free meals from the head sections, I used them extensively. But they were impossible to cast the "right way" round, so I hooked them in reverse - in other words, before casting, they would be hanging head upwards up the trace.

 

I caught a lot of pike that way... but unfortunately no more than I did on tail sections. Another good theory that didnn't quite work. I guess the pike, not being nearly as clever as carp (joke), didn't see the significance of picking up lots of free offerings with no hooks attached.

 

But, more importantly here, I didn't suffer any downturn in ratio of runs to fish hooked. Why? Because I continued to strike as soon as I got a run.

 

The truth is that any bait, even a whole mackerel, is pretty small compared to a pike's mouth. As long as the pike that has picked up your bait is iteself of a decent size, and even if it is holding the bait across its jaws, you should hook it in the SCISSORS. If you miss the run, it's most likely the pike was a very small one.

 

And that's NOT supposition: that is from observation watching big and small pike pick up my baits in very shallow, clear water.

 

Please allow me to be a bit controversial here. Most pike anglers who deep hook their fish are (to use a term recently made popular by Mr Fickling) tossers who are either incapable of detecting runs early enough (possible, but unlikely) or complete ****s who deliberately leave runs long enough to hook them in the soft tissue at the top of their throats.

 

The latter do more damage to pike stocks than pollution and pike killers put together. Seriously. The biggest threat to pike is the I-am-after-the-big-pike-that-I-know-lives-somewhere-around-here brigade who is determined to land the fish they are after, come what may.

 

The 39 lb (38 lb when it was apparently landed by Nige Williams) from a drain I know very well indeed is in grave danger from the people fishing for it.

 

Piek anglers are the biggest threat to pike. Simple as that. I welcome replies from anybody who would wish to argue with me on that subject, so long as you are ready to be shot down in flames.

 

And that is why I'm cynical about the PAC. While I admire its stance in advising youngsters and newcomers to seek experienced advice before venturing into esox land, it doesn't condemn some of the tossers (copywright N. Fickling) in its ranks.

 

C'mon... let's talk. My sleeves are rolled up...

[Alan Pearce]

Having caught thousands of pike all of which appear to have taken the bait both live and dead, head first. Dozens of these fish also had other fish in their mouths /throats which also appear to have gone down head first. However a couple of weeks ago I caught two pike both of which had small perch in thier mouths, some of these seemed to have gone down tail first, so your guess is as good as mine, matbe it is a size thing.

 

Alan.

[Dick Dastardly]

Fen you have said what Ive said many times,yes us pike anglers are the pikes worst enemy.The amount of fish that are returned even after being well handled and lightly hooked that subsequently die would horrify most.

 

As for the origonal question,despite the fact that prey can be grabbed at any angle (normally engulfed if small and taken crosswise if bigger,live or dead)all are ultimately repositioned for swallowing.Anything "fish shaped" ie whole baits or half baits are turned so that the fins fold back.In all cases this means head first.If they didnt the fins being "erected" by the movement backwards would hinder swallowing.

 

Hooks facing to the rear is the logical positioning.Even with a horizontally mounted live bait the traditional positioning of the trebles in the pectoral muscle and dorsal root give this effect.

 

Even though I personally disagree with the so called "instant strike" (my views on this have been mentioned many times and I wont bother repeating them again as most who preach "instant strike" never bother to read them properly anyway)

I have heard many piker whilst on a potential record water utter the "Im taking no chances on missing one on the take here" A poor attitude indead.

[Dick Dastardly]

Sorry a bit I forgot to add.When fishing live baits either static in a strong current or being trolled the hooks are mounted in reverse ie facing towards the head.This is so that the bait isnt killed by drowning.The hook ups like this are notoriously difficult.Just think about it logically.

 

No matter how many "new" things are tried IMO the only way to go about things is to stick to the tried and proven methods,show a bit of commonsense,and above all ensure your handling and unhooking skills are up to scratch.The way to do this as I keep on advising is to seek the help of an experienced piker.

[fenboy]

Budgie, You're right. One thing I neglected to mention in my ranting was that if you strike at a pike that's sitting still with a bait across its jaws you will miss it. If it's swimming away, you will hook it. Don't ask me why, but that's a fact. And it's something I first observed 35 years ago, so please don't question my experience here.

 

Yes, pike ALWAYS turn the bait to swallow head first, in my experience. But what is interesting is that zander don't. Despite the fact they've got smaller heads than pike, they will swallow a bait any way they find it. Strange but true.

 

Dunno about perch. Haven't caught enough on fish baits to comment. And I can't comment on eels... I'm so dismayed when I hook one that I fail to pay attention to how it has swallowed the bait. I'm not being flippant here... I respect eels and treat them with maximum respect when I catch them. But I just don't have an affinity with them, if you know what I mean? I wish I did, because they are the most enigmatic fish in freshwater in the UK, bar only the burbot.