Piking north south divide ?

[Dick Dastardly]

BUDGIE,

 

It pains me enough to read about "smart carp". I've bashed my head soft saying they are just "stupid fish". NOW, I see pike are, or can, be just as smart as carp. PLEEEEZE!!! Next someone will be saying the master race stems from trout.

 

Phone

 

 

True mate Ive certainly never come across "clever" pike! Its the things Ive listed that make them easy or hard to catch certainly not their intelligence! Also unlike a lot of UK carp anglers I also dont feel the need to pass off any failings on my part to catch them as any credit to the pike!

 

I suppose some will say that "fishing pressure" can "wise" pike up to certain baits and tactics. Yes it does have an adverse affect but normally (in my experience) this is a little miss interpreted. When people use "designer" tackle shop brought baits such as coloured baits,sea baits,exotics etc or simply douse them in attractors/oils etc etc then if enough do it over a long enough period of time the pike do stop taking them with the same exuberance. So yes they have "wised up" but only because these type of baits are so easily recognisable (the very same thing that makes them "instant" in the first place,similar to carp baits which have high flavour levels being taken quickly but also blowing very quickly)

 

When fancy baits are mentioned (as in the recent "Are they any good" thread) I normally reply that they can be good as change baits on heavily fished waters but are not the magical answer some would like to think.But then say that my comment might not be fair as I very rarely have to fish pressured pike waters (soon as Ive caught what I want/what I think is available I move on and this is often before the circus arrives) but when I do have to "compete" with other pikers I'm not really competing as they are all using tackle shop baits and Ive still got my lives and natural deads out! I often catch well using these tactics whilst the other "designer" boys struggle.

 

I mentioned the above not to boast about what a pike expert I am but to merely point out that pike never wise up to a live bait and very rarely a natural dead! Indicating to me that they are not clever enough to or simply cant afford to!

 

People say that trout reservoir pike wise up to trolled baits (live dead or artificial) because the extremely poor take to hook up ratio.......true but once again not due to intelligence but simply by their pre formed feeding MO and environment.

 

No although possibly my favourite fish and fishing I certainly can not say pike are clever!

[Dave H]

True mate Ive certainly never come across "clever" pike! Its the things Ive listed that make them easy or hard to catch certainly not their intelligence! Also unlike a lot of UK carp anglers I also dont feel the need to pass off any failings on my part to catch them as any credit to the pike!

 

I suppose some will say that "fishing pressure" can "wise" pike up to certain baits and tactics. Yes it does have an adverse affect but normally (in my experience) this is a little miss interpreted. When people use "designer" tackle shop brought baits such as coloured baits,sea baits,exotics etc or simply douse them in attractors/oils etc etc then if enough do it over a long enough period of time the pike do stop taking them with the same exuberance. So yes they have "wised up" but only because these type of baits are so easily recognisable (the very same thing that makes them "instant" in the first place,similar to carp baits which have high flavour levels being taken quickly but also blowing very quickly)

 

When fancy baits are mentioned (as in the recent "Are they any good" thread) I normally reply that they can be good as change baits on heavily fished waters but are not the magical answer some would like to think.But then say that my comment might not be fair as I very rarely have to fish pressured pike waters (soon as Ive caught what I want/what I think is available I move on and this is often before the circus arrives) but when I do have to "compete" with other pikers I'm not really competing as they are all using tackle shop baits and Ive still got my lives and natural deads out! I often catch well using these tactics whilst the other "designer" boys struggle.

 

I mentioned the above not to boast about what a pike expert I am but to merely point out that pike never wise up to a live bait and very rarely a natural dead! Indicating to me that they are not clever enough to or simply cant afford to!

 

People say that trout reservoir pike wise up to trolled baits (live dead or artificial) because the extremely poor take to hook up ratio.......true but once again not due to intelligence but simply by their pre formed feeding MO and environment.

 

No although possibly my favourite fish and fishing I certainly can not say pike are clever!

 

 

The word 'Clever' is not really on is it. I fly Birds of prey and hunt with them. There is no doubt in my mind that as they get older they get 'Wiser' but only wiser in catching wild quarry in a hunting situation however stick a dead animal that they would hunt on your fist they will come everytime . They know it will not move that's millions of years instinct not clevererness.

However it all depends if they are hungry . It is just as simple as that.

 

Also i think it's not the fish being clever it's the angler that gets clever.Even when the fish are hungry if you put the bait in the wrong area then forget it but if you put it in their control route then that's you being wise not the fish.Animals don't alter their route because they have been caught there either take Rabbit runs it is the same principle .

 

I think the word 'Clever' is used by some fisherman because it boosts their ego to have caught it but it's more like right place right time.

 

My opinion.

[chesters1]

ofcourse pike can learn on well fished waters i have had pike following a spinner or plug virtually up to the bank but not take it but some jack grabs it the next pass ,watched the same bigger pike do it more than once then go off in a huff .

 

trouble is in america land where everything is free a pike may well never have been caught before to learn to be wary ,a bit like our sea fish

seen trout do the same ignoring a particular fly several times but grab a different one the next pass ,it may not be down to being clever or wary but i bet even fish learn we know goldfish can do some very "clever" things so learning from experience may happen on a lesser level for lesser fish? if a trout is kept for the pot the learning part never occurs so perhaps catch and release even things up?

you can do it yourself ,find a section of river thats fly fished and put a bit of bread on you will get as many trout as you can carry ,is it the flies dont look rght to the fish or it gets more wary of flies after being caught on one or the trout has never seen bread before so doesn't see it as a threat ,its not used to bread at all its totally alien so it probably doesn't even know it can eat it

Edited December 23, 2011 by chesters1

[Dave H]

ofcourse pike can learn on well fished waters i have had pike following a spinner or plug virtually up to the bank but not take it but some jack grabs it the next pass ,watched the same bigger pike do it more than once then go off in a huff .

 

trouble is in america land where everything is free a pike may well never have been caught before to learn to be wary ,a bit like our sea fish

seen trout do the same ignoring a particular fly several times but grab a different one the next pass ,it may not be down to being clever or wary but i bet even fish learn we know goldfish can do some very "clever" things so learning from experience may happen on a lesser level for lesser fish? if a trout is kept for the pot the learning part never occurs so perhaps catch and release even things up?

you can do it yourself ,find a section of river thats fly fished and put a bit of bread on you will get as many trout as you can carry ,is it the flies dont look rght to the fish or it gets more wary of flies after being caught on one or the trout has never seen bread before so doesn't see it as a threat ,its not used to bread at all its totally alien so it probably doesn't even know it can eat it

 

I don't believe a fish has a long memory or a conscience?. They on pressured waters may prefer one bait to another but it does not associate one from being caught.

[danny2391]

I don't believe a fish has a long memory or a conscience?. They on pressured waters may prefer one bait to another but it does not associate one from being caught.

 

 

None of us will ever know for sure what a fish can and can’t remember they live on instinct alone.

 

I remember seeing shoal of perch feeding on hatching insects, but as I dangled a worm in front of them they chose to ignore it now that might be seen as stupid as that worm would have been the equivalent of eating thousands of the insects but their own instinct told them to eat while they are there.

 

 

Also even though I have the luck of living in the lake district we don’t have the ability of being able to use any other baits than sea dead baits so if are pike get used to them then we are screwed !!

[Emma two]

None of us will ever know for sure what a fish can and can’t remember they live on instinct alone.

 

I remember seeing shoal of perch feeding on hatching insects, but as I dangled a worm in front of them they chose to ignore it now that might be seen as stupid as that worm would have been the equivalent of eating thousands of the insects but their own instinct told them to eat while they are there.

 

 

Also even though I have the luck of living in the lake district we don’t have the ability of being able to use any other baits than sea dead baits so if are pike get used to them then we are screwed !!

 

 

Well the rules for live/dead baits mention fish only....we could think about using ducks, hegehogs, kittens and puppies. I have seriously considered tryin' a popped up rat, even if it's just to wind up the park wardens.

[danny2391]

Well the rules for live/dead baits mention fish only....we could think about using ducks, hegehogs, kittens and puppies. I have seriously considered tryin' a popped up rat, even if it's just to wind up the park wardens.

 

 

i know someone that used a dead frog with air injected into it and used it as a surface lure !

[Emma two]

i know someone that used a dead frog with air injected into it and used it as a surface lure !

 

 

Did it work?

[danny2391]

Did it work?

 

 

am not sure i think so

[chesters1]

I don't believe a fish has a long memory or a conscience?. They on pressured waters may prefer one bait to another but it does not associate one from being caught.

 

have fun

 

now thats a young fish around here they type by the age of 6!

if they can recognise their owners ,do tricks to get food i have no doubt they can learn that a particular bait may bring a result it doesn't like after being caught on it a few times.

now carp are not predominately predators (most if not all fish will eat smaller living fish or nibble at dead ones if they get a chance) so perhaps their brain is wired so differently to pikes pike never learn anything but not knowing to the contrary 100% i wouldn't discount it out of hand but of course to get to a size pike must learn that catching a fish by stealth results in more food than chasing it round a pond until its exhausted ,preds are coloured for this but even in a pond without any cover at all they can exist so its not all down to their camo so they must learn to approach their prey to snatch it on the other hand does a prey fish learn to recognise a predator if it escapes ? like sea fish how many fish escape to learn?

Edited December 24, 2011 by chesters1