Fishing nets ban to protect birds

[wurzel]

Hi Wurzel The Cornish do indeed have mesh sizes for specific areas like the Maniacal Rocks and the Runnel Stone both prolific Bass areas,

 

Hello Bob

 

B.A.S.S would do better to look at that option and try to get other ifca's to do the same.

I should imagine that B.A.S.S would have trouble getting the majority of the run of mill anglers to conform to a mls of 48 cm let alone commercial fishermen.

The trouble with single species fanatics is they tend to be very narrow minded and lack any insight of the logistics of the bigger picture.

[Bob Shotter]

Hello Bob

 

B.A.S.S would do better to look at that option and try to get other ifca's to do the same.

I should imagine that B.A.S.S would have trouble getting the majority of the run of mill anglers to conform to a mls of 48 cm let alone commercial fishermen.

The trouble with single species fanatics is they tend to be very narrow minded and lack any insight of the logistics of the bigger picture.

 

To be fair Wurzel, Nigel Horsman at B.A.S.S. did present a good case covering many aspects in support of the application ( http://ukbass.com/2011/11/10/southern-ifca...n-the-bass-mls/ )

 

However I’m inclined to agree with you and in this case I’m still not clear how putting more pressure on the stock you want to preserve can in any way be seen as being sensible.

 

From a recreational point of view it is totaly pointles.

[barry luxton]

To be fair Wurzel, Nigel Horsman at B.A.S.S. did present a good case covering many aspects in support of the application ( http://ukbass.com/2011/11/10/southern-ifca...n-the-bass-mls/ )

 

However I’m inclined to agree with you and in this case I’m still not clear how putting more pressure on the stock you want to preserve can in any way be seen as being sensible.

 

From a recreational point of view it is totaly pointles.

 

You have spent so much time and effort rubbishing bass's application, countering with your mucus membrane, pair trawling decimation argument, top down approach, in a 60% line caught fishery. What's it to be then. As an angling rep, your not clear yet make a point of challenging other anglers vermently and consider they don't know what they are talking about, plate sized is best.

 

You claim that your ifca governer has again rubbished the rsa application in your district, yet offer up nothing to back it up apart from, as an angling rep quote: 'we won'.

[Bob Shotter]

You have spent so much time and effort rubbishing bass's application, countering with your mucus membrane, pair trawling decimation argument, top down approach, in a 60% line caught fishery. What's it to be then. As an angling rep, your not clear yet make a point of challenging other anglers vermently and consider they don't know what they are talking about, plate sized is best.

 

You claim that your ifca governer has again rubbished the rsa application in your district, yet offer up nothing to back it up apart from, as an angling rep quote: 'we won'.

 

 

Barry there is little point in posting a reply to you as you will simply try and score points. But you are an old pal in need so who am I to disappoint.

 

You keep banging on about my being an angling rep but don’t accept or consider any of the arguments offered. So for the record CFO Derriman stated that the MLS for Bass set in Cornwall is both higher than other parts of the UK and is in line with what is recognised by the EU. Bass can and do breed at 37.5 cm unless you can prove him the EU and their scientist wrong.

 

There is little research into mucus membrane but enough to say that handling a fish will damage it and that in turn will lead to the infections that it prevents, the smaller the fish the greater the risk of survival, if you know better again please prove me wrong.

 

Everyone I know inc. B.A.S.S. but apart from you it seems, realise that the effort of the pair trawling in the western approaches has a significant impact, however there appears to be no political will to address that at present.

 

It is my personal opinion that the top down approach as you call it which is based on evidence provided by scientist like Professor Ray Hilborn (The University of Washington.) and backed by Professor Martin Pastoors (The Centre for Marine Policy in the Netherlands.) is valid. Upping the MLS will increase effort on the larger fish of which there are fewer, the practice is unsustainable and the proof of that is in the numbers of large fish in the stock which are already falling. Yes there are still some but for how much longer?

 

While your catch and release friends at B.A.S.S. may have a point in the very small Southern District, changing byelaws in that area will have no significant overall affect, even less without addressing the net mesh size to prevent yet more discards or considering the introducing a ‘passage byelaw’ preventing commercial landings, be they trawled or line caught from simply being transported the short distance to Brixham in the Devon district where they can be landed. Southern cant police what they have at present without adding more to their management.

 

You surprise me the man who championed ‘no unnecessary regulation without proof of need.’ Yet here you are supporting an org who are not seen in good light by the average angler, not least the fact that they proudly boast a catch and release policy. Perhaps you could present us with some credible facts to support this need to up this MLS and maybe show where you stand as an angler who was retaining Cod smaller than those I was returning when last we fished together. Whats that on your post ‘Recycle Fish’ yeah right.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Bob Shotter

[barry luxton]

Barry there is little point in posting a reply to you as you will simply try and score points. But you are an old pal in need so who am I to disappoint.

 

You keep banging on about my being an angling rep but don’t accept or consider any of the arguments offered. So for the record CFO Derriman stated that the MLS for Bass set in Cornwall is both higher than other parts of the UK and is in line with what is recognised by the EU. Bass can and do breed at 37.5 cm unless you can prove him the EU and their scientist wrong.

 

There is little research into mucus membrane but enough to say that handling a fish will damage it and that in turn will lead to the infections that it prevents, the smaller the fish the greater the risk of survival, if you know better again please prove me wrong.

 

Everyone I know inc. B.A.S.S. but apart from you it seems, realise that the effort of the pair trawling in the western approaches has a significant impact, however there appears to be no political will to address that at present.

 

It is my personal opinion that the top down approach as you call it which is based on evidence provided by scientist like Professor Ray Hilborn (The University of Washington.) and backed by Professor Martin Pastoors (The Centre for Marine Policy in the Netherlands.) is valid. Upping the MLS will increase effort on the larger fish of which there are fewer, the practice is unsustainable and the proof of that is in the numbers of large fish in the stock which are already falling. Yes there are still some but for how much longer?

 

While your catch and release friends at B.A.S.S. may have a point in the very small Southern District, changing byelaws in that area will have no significant overall affect, even less without addressing the net mesh size to prevent yet more discards or considering the introducing a ‘passage byelaw’ preventing commercial landings, be they trawled or line caught from simply being transported the short distance to Brixham in the Devon district where they can be landed. Southern cant police what they have at present without adding more to their management.

 

You surprise me the man who championed ‘no unnecessary regulation without proof of need.’ Yet here you are supporting an org who are not seen in good light by the average angler, not least the fact that they proudly boast a catch and release policy. Perhaps you could present us with some credible facts to support this need to up this MLS and maybe show where you stand as an angler who was retaining Cod smaller than those I was returning when last we fished together. Whats that on your post ‘Recycle Fish’ yeah right.

 

What are you waffling on about. I won't accept any of your arguments, lack of evidence, mate. I havn't spoken about the size that bass breed, no discussion at all, you have imported that one, where is the conflict. What we are talking about is the bass in the range from the current mls up to the rsa propsed one. This is exactly where your mucus membrane fails, as you yourself informed all that you considered it applied to juvenile bass, below mls. Show us the evidence of this mucus argument affecting above that size range, not your hearsay. Links will be acceptable. Or are you now changing your opinion again?

 

Show us the evidence of derriman rubbishing bass's application, that is what you had stated, we are all aware that the mls in the cornish ifca region is slightly higher, that doesn't rubbish bass's application or their evidence, so expand on that one if you will. Again not hearsay. Links will suffice.

 

Show us the evidence in your top down argument, that applies to the likes of BASS's idea of returning fish within the min mls and proposed size if you like, not hearsay but facts. Links will do.

 

Don't try and support any of your argument citing the e u, we are all aware of their failings. Don't try and use pair trawling argument as a reason for depletion as there arn't any warnings from anyone. Unless you can again provide evidence contrary to defra and co, you can't, hearsay ain't good enough. Whats the e u got to do with legislating within the six mile zone? If so whats the point of ifca's.

 

And i support the rsa, you haven't provided any evidence or track record to date that you do. All you have managed within the space of less than a year is to demonstrate you are now a self opinionated expert on the bass without showing any links btw and the depleted pair trawled stock (unproven) and you don't support anglers who have the ideal of more and bigger fish, you even ignore the amount of rsa within your straw poll as an irrelevance to your argument. You also appear to have difficulty is liazing with anglers and charter boat skippers whose opinion differs from your own, apart from running them down.

 

What are you on about returning cod, attempting to do a bit more rubbishing?

[Bob Shotter]

What are you waffling on about. I won't accept any of your arguments, lack of evidence, mate. I havn't spoken about the size that bass breed, no discussion at all, you have imported that one, where is the conflict. What we are talking about is the bass in the range from the current mls up to the rsa propsed one. This is exactly where your mucus membrane fails, as you yourself informed all that you considered it applied to juvenile bass, below mls. Show us the evidence of this mucus argument affecting above that size range, not your hearsay. Links will be acceptable. Or are you now changing your opinion again?

 

Damage to the mucus membrane of fish will expose that fish to infection FACT go do your own research and find prof that I’m wrong. The smaller the fish the less likely it will survive FACT common sense will tell you that. Can you prove otherwise I doubt it.

 

Show us the evidence of derriman rubbishing bass's application, that is what you had stated, we are all aware that the mls in the cornish ifca region is slightly higher, that doesn't rubbish bass's application or their evidence, so expand on that one if you will. Again not hearsay. Links will suffice.

 

The request to increase the MLS of Bass and other species was presented by the CFSA not Bass and the response by Mr Derriman can be found on the Cornwall IFCA web site in the DRAFT minutes and associated files, I’m sure you can find it.

 

Show us the evidence in your top down argument, that applies to the likes of BASS's idea of returning fish within the min mls and proposed size if you like, not hearsay but facts. Links will do.

 

The top down argument can be found by using Google try the names of either of the professors quoted and do some homework you might learn something.

 

Don't try and support any of your argument citing the e u, we are all aware of their failings. Don't try and use pair trawling argument as a reason for depletion as there arn't any warnings from anyone. Unless you can again provide evidence contrary to defra and co, you can't, hearsay ain't good enough. Whats the e u got to do with legislating within the six mile zone? If so whats the point of ifca's.

 

You may well say the CFP is a failed framework that does not make the data collected or the scientific research flawed. The EU and the CFP do affect some IFCA decisions and it was Mr Derriman who quoted the MLS and breeding size of Bass as being recognised by the EU. Why not give him a call and ask him you can find the number on the CIFCA web site.

 

And i support the rsa, you haven't provided any evidence or track record to date that you do. All you have managed within the space of less than a year is to demonstrate you are now a self opinionated expert on the bass without showing any links btw and the depleted pair trawled stock (unproven) and you don't support anglers who have the ideal of more and bigger fish, you even ignore the amount of rsa within your straw poll as an irrelevance to your argument. You also appear to have difficulty is liazing with anglers and charter boat skippers whose opinion differs from your own, apart from running them down.

 

I’m a self-appointed expert you say when all I have done is offer a PERSONAL opinion based on research and listening to others. Two years ago I would have backed the idea put up by B.A.S.S to increase the MLS but once others started to explain some of its failings and looked at the research have I changed my mind. Does that make me right? look at the answer Barry it’s ‘NO’ No it does not mean I’m right!

I accept the straw poll shows more support upping MLS does that make them right? Again No it does not.

 

The argument put forward by Bass looks good but it is flawed for example the 60% line caught is based on landings within the district not fish caught in the district and landed elsewhere.

 

The thing is where this poll to become RSA-UK policy then I would both follow and support it, that is how democracy works two sides of an argument aired and the people decide.

 

I don’t have any difficulty in communicating with others perhaps getting my point across but what you call failing and name calling is where I put peoples back up because they have been shown up, your chum Chris Caines a classic example and that started over a single sentence and the fact that he was speaking out of turn. He sees that as more important to continued talks and you also made sure they cant continue.

 

What are you on about returning cod, attempting to do a bit more rubbishing?

 

Again the truth Barry on day one out of Whitby I was returning Codling larger than some you kept for the pot. It was only when I realised you and others indeed intended to keep them that I contributed the ones I then caught. Remember I took none as I have bigger Cod on tap at home.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Bob Shotter

[wurzel]

Somebody needs to bang ya bloody heads together.

 

Either that or get married.

[Bob Shotter]

Somebody needs to bang ya bloody heads together.

 

Either that or get married.

 

Sorry Wurzel your probably right

 

 

 

 

Barry will you..........................................

 

 

 

perhaps.......................m m m m

 

 

 

agree to disagree

[barry luxton]

Sorry Wurzel your probably right

 

 

 

 

Barry will you..........................................

 

 

 

perhaps.......................m m m m

 

 

 

agree to disagree

 

Your rants are no problem to me, you failed with the personal rubbish, on the whitby trip, you missed the fact that the lip hooked ones where returned. Many of the fish filleted were given to the skipper and others on the queyside and all of the ling were given away. however when you make them against others within the fishing and angling industry where they consider it affects thier business then you deserve all that's headed to you. Keep on digging up your Chris Caines rubbish as a prime example. hope it returns to bite you up the butt. How many months have you been an mmo appointed ifca rep? Is it a record that you will be the first that has an official complaint lodged against you.

 

Still nothing of fact. Back yourself up by providing the link to your claims or get off the hearsay pot.

Edited January 27, 2012 by barry luxton

[Bob Shotter]

At Whitby I never once saw you return a fish, lip hooked or not, but your right all the fish landed went to the pot and no one made a penny from them. Talking of which perhaps you owe a chap with a blue boat an apology before you go ranting about me and I assume you’re talking about that disgusting individual who took the preverbal out of my late brother who he never even knew.

 

Every single attack from your good self about my post are not based on anything being disproven but on a personal level like the way you miss spell my surname on another site. Two years ago I believed you were the sort of guy who had the balls to take down the misrepresentatives of sea angling and on that score also I was wrong. Once you realised it involved your own chums and your fishing from a Dorset port you soon changed your tune didn’t you? Those same blokes were my friends Barry you seem to forget that Mr Caines was wrong to say what he said but he couldn’t handle the criticism and you sir have taken full advantage of that a fuelled the divide which is why I say you do not have the interest of sea anglers to heart and it pains me to say your one selfish and immature individual.

 

You have been provided all the necessary info to check out what I say I’m not here to pamper you, so go do your own research and bring back the evidence to back up your hearsay claim.

 

My apologies to all for going off on one, while I do believe in naming and shaming, here I’m guilty of posting a very personal reply which is not what the forum is there for or what you guys would probably want to read and yes I could have PM’ed this to Barry only see it turn up on another part of the net, so if this post is moderated I would be neither surprised nor disappointed.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Bob Shotter