Trebles for carp

[Guest Leon Roskilly]

Guys,

 

Try this experiment.

 

Insert the single hook of a treble into the skin of an orange. Now pull so that the skin tears as the hook travels.

 

Now insert two points of the treble into the orange and pull again.

 

Tight Lines - leon

[Guest trent.barbeler]

Hi Guys,

 

Does a double figure orange put up much of a scrap?

 

Regards,

 

Lee.

[Guest M Godliman]

I tried your suggestion Leon,just because an orange is short lived creature in my house.

It seemed to demonstrate to some extent what I was trying to explain probably badly before about one point sliding along yet the same pull on two points spreading the pressure and not penetrating as deep,and not sliding along.

Is this what you meant or have I misunderstood ?

I hope nobody in my house notices the strange marks in the orange.They think I'm daft enough already.

 

Martin.

[Guest oolichan]

Mr.Burke,

 

The opinions I have on Trebles are from my own experience...certainly not fact. It is illegal to use Treble hooks in the waters I fish. Since changing over to singles, I have not noticed any change in my hookup ratios, leading me to believe that a single is just as effective, in the waters I fish. I strictly lure fish (spoons,jigs) for pike and have had no problems with singles.

 

The author of the study below states that single, in fact, lead to higher initial mortalities, where as the extended handling that trebles may require cause death also. [url=http://www.seagrant.sunysb.edu/Fishery/AnglerResource/Techniques/HookingMortality.htm]http://www.seagrant.sunysb.edu/Fishery/AnglerResource/Techniques/HookingMortality.htm[/uR L]

 

I have nothing against trebles in principle. I do hate handling them though, as well as using barbed hooks. I love the way a single barbless slides out...I don't even have to remove the fish from the water. I also find that if you keep tension on the fish, a barbless will rarely pull out.

 

[This message has been edited by oolichan (edited 10 September 2001).]

[Guest Steve Burke]

Thanks for the reply, Oolichan.

 

I'm intrigued by your findings, especially as I've never tried replacing the trebles on lures with singles except on some small Mepps type models. These certainly caught perch.

 

I'll look up the references you've given and will experiment further. I'm sure that we UK anglers have a lot to learn from our Transatlantic cousins, and not just on lure fishing.

 

One final point, I'm not Mr. Burke to anyone here, I'm Steve!

 

------------------

Wingham Fisheries

http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/fisheries/wingham.htm

[Guest Newt]

Steve (not Mr.) Burke -

 

I will be happy to include a couple of the larger hooks if you want to try pike with them. Can't speak first hand on that as no pike down here (too warm).

 

One thing I've found to work well for lives is to hook them thru the eye sockets (in one and out the other). Leaves a nice hook point where it can catch and the bait seems to stay active for lots longer than with any other method I've tried.

 

Also, I've gone to doubles on all my lures that came with trebles. Just snip off one of the points at the bend area to leave the weight as much like the original as possible. Also, hook-ups went way up when I started routinely replacing the original hooks with a much higher quality treble. I have come to really like the Gamakatsu EWG Treble (EWG = Extra Wide Gap) which is available in #2,4,6.

[Guest Danny H]

Originally posted by Newt:

One thing I've found to work well for lives is to hook them thru the eye sockets (in one and out the other).  Leaves a nice hook point where it can catch and the bait seems to stay active for lots longer than with any other method I've tried.

 

 

 

Don't take this the wrong way Newt, but with a comment like that, I reckon a neutral

would rather we used trebles !!!.

[Guest Leon Roskilly]

Originally posted by M Godliman:

I tried your suggestion Leon,just because an orange is short lived creature in my house.

It seemed to demonstrate to some extent what I was trying to explain probably badly before about one point sliding along yet the same pull on two points spreading the pressure and not penetrating as deep,and not sliding along.

Is this what you meant or have I misunderstood ?

I hope nobody in my house notices the strange marks in the orange.They think I'm daft enough already.

 

Martin.

 

 

Yes Martin, it demonstrates that multiple hooking spreads the pressure and can in fact cause less damage, not more. Much like sitting on a single nail, or laying down on a bed of nails!

 

(Incidentally, I used an orange because, when I used to go out with student nurses, they were told that an orange has about the same consistency as human skin, and were good subjects to practice injecting on!

 

My advice is never to pick up and eat an orange in the accomadation used by student nurses!!)

 

The soft areas in a pike's mouth are few, and the fight can be quite fierce. IMHO, using trebles causes far less damage than leaning into a fish hooked on a single point.

 

The same argument applies to barbless hooks. A fine wire barbless hook can act like cheesecutter wire when a lot of pressure is put on it. A barbed and/or multi-point hook 'anchors' much more effectively.

 

Please, please don't take my word for it.

 

The world is divided by opinions based on what Aristotle called 'thought experiments', and the arguments which ensue from them.

 

I remember reading of some intellectuals that communally eductated their kids.

 

They set them the task of writing an essay as to why, when a tench was slipped into a bucket brim-full of water, the fish went in, but no water was spilled. Most of the essays explained that the slime played a part etc. Just one student actually took a tench and slid it into the full bucket. The water overflowed

 

Take some hooks and devise your own experiments.

 

Be guided by knowledge, not opinion.

 

Tight Lines - leon

[Guest FENLAND LEG END]

I have not used trebles for several years, why because they act like anchors particularly with Zander. Also if you are using as most do 2 trebles on a trace then when winding into a fish you are spreading the force potentialy through 4 hook points, think about it. I use 2 doubles on most of my deadbait rigs (live baits different kettle of fish, excuse the pun !! )I used to flatten the barb but stopped this as i now believe that barbed hooks cause less damage to 'big' fish than barbless (twisting action)I find that all (yes all) my pike (Z's) are hooked by only one hook as this method is so effecient no slippage occurs (less damage to mouth) so the second hook point does not come into play. The reason i use 2 doubles instead of 1 is that i strike v.quickly and find that on occassions baits fly off on the cast with one double. Trebles were devised by Mr Jardine over 100 years ago, rather dated don't you think !!!!!!!

[Guest Newt]

Originally posted by Danny H:

Don't take this the wrong way Newt, but with a comment like that, I reckon a neutral

would rather we used trebles !!!.

 

Danny - I actually hesitated a bit before posting that particular hooking technique. Then I thought that we don't expect the live bait to survive the experience at all (if we are lucky). I also think from what I've seen that the initial trauma to the live bait is less with this method than with other ways of attaching them - including using elastic bands to parts of the body. This is, I think, somewhat verified by the fact that a live bait stays lots more active hooked this way than any other I've tried. I've also had occasion to release several after having them on a microbarb #1 hook for a few hours and they swam away nicely. No obvious disorientation or other problems. Although I am sure the experience was in no way beneficial, it evidently wasn't as harmful as you would expect if you've never tried it.

 

Maybe one of our biology experts can give some additional comments but I'll just say the method does work well. Individual anglers will have to decide if it is right for them - as they have to decide on the whole question of using live fish as bait.