Fishing away from a baited area

[robtherake]

I agree with most of that, especially about the intelligence credited to a pretty unitelligent creature which has the prime functions of survival and reproduction hard wired into its instinct - they certainly arent octopus which have been proven to to be able to learn. I do believe that there is some kind of acquired adaptation to the instinct of larger and older fish, especially carp, which has made them, somehow, to be more weary of being caught. Why are they so difficult to catch compared to the yearling roach and perch - apart from the obvious answer that they are less numerous?

 

Looking at the bigger picture however, and Im sure that this has been discussed elsewhere on the forum, is the spirit of anglling as a pleasurable hobby-come pastime and the seriousness in which it takes itself nowadays.

 

I look back at when my father took me fishing on the trent near Dunham bridge when I was a nipper, its was all about the expectation, the time spent with my dad, the getting up early, the picnics, the (sometimes) lovely weather. OK, this is a rather romantic view from the perspective of a child. As a grew, my father was often replaced by my mates mates over summer at Harlesthorpe Dam in Clowne where I had a season ticket and they were magical days as well, spent fishing in a lovely spot, just for the sake of fishing. Hair rigs, poles and electronic bite indicators were just showing up at the time, boilies were just coming onto the market but the baits used were luncheon meat, corn, bread, worms and maggots. Pellets, what pellets?

 

I got back into angling about 11 years ago after 15 years away and I started reading the press again with the inevitable adverts and features and I have to say that fishing really has gone a little mad in my opinion. It, and many of its participants, take the 'sport' if I can call it that, far too seriously. OK, progress is a good thing, take Sat Nav for instance, and im not averse to using the odd pellet now or hair rig but some of the new methodology, the baiting, the technology (poles, bait boats, method feeders etc) just narrow the field of movement too much, if you get my drift; we are just tying too hard to outwit a pretty unintelligent creature. The end result on this continuum is surely to have a big net which can scoop out all the fish in a pond/lake/river etc and they we can have our picture in the AT knowing that we have caught the biggest fish by the 'net method'. Lets not also forget the vastly increased litter produced by the packing all this new stuff is kept in. A1 pits after a few nights bivvying is like a post rock festival bankside.

 

Sunday was a lovely day, im now 36 and I took my 10 year old daughter to a local, picturesque millpond. We both sat there with a rod in hand catching up to half pound roach on maggot and it was lovely. The scenery was lovely, the banks clear of litter and rod pods (apart from a couple of sweary chavs in the corner - that's another story) and we enjoyed the day for what it was. I could have similarly enjoyable day beside the Trent barbelling on my own.

 

At the end of the day its each to their own and this is no way a criticism of those who take a particular angling path. The point I'm trying to make is that for many, the essence of fishing I think is missing. Think Passion for Angling or the Compleat Angler - I admit it, I am probably a romaticist when it comes to fishing. I like my lightweight carbon tackle but I prefer their spirit of the hobby. I just think we should stop trying too hard and return a little to what got us into fishing in the first place. We'd enjoy it a lot more.

 

I couldn't agree more. I've spent some time float fishing recently at a little pond close by, with the absolute minimum of kit - just like the old days - and had a great time, completely unfettered by complexity. Catches have been rubbish, but enjoyment was right up there with what I remember as a kid. Lovely.

[Guest Chris Perch]

I often find when using hemp as a feed it does not take much hemp to get them pre occupied on it,

And often find the hook bait fished off the bed of bait will produce more and sometimes bigger fish,(as I have recently been doing this more often)

My interpretation of this is that the fish will drift on and off the feed and when feeding over hemp will be largely pre occupied or feeding in a manner where they are less likely to accept a hook bait,

So a bait fished off the hemp will produce because when they drift off or around the edge of the feed they are more likely to pick up a larger hook bait.

That is my theory!

[Phone]

Androo,

 

Carp retain slowly aquired "learned responses" for 4 - 7 days. I cannot address the frequency with which these fish are being caught - or what species you're targeting. Predators have practically no learning curve - so I've been told.

 

Phone

[Anderoo]

Androo,

 

Carp retain slowly aquired "learned responses" for 4 - 7 days. I cannot address the frequency with which these fish are being caught - or what species you're targeting. Predators have practically no learning curve - so I've been told.

 

Phone

 

I'd be interested in where these stats come from - my experience is that fish remember these things for far longer than a few days. I'd be interested in Steve B's view on predators not learning anything...

[Rob Ward]

Interesting one this, not that I've got much to add that hasn't already been said but....

 

Two days ago I put a couple of balls of leftover groundbait with added freebies into my garden pond to see what the reaction of the fish was, two Shubunkins (Carp) and four Golden Tench.

 

The Shubunkins were clearly attracted to the feed but didn't stop to feed over it, they skirted around the perimeter picking bits off. The Tench ignored it completely and continued searching through the silt for their food.

 

Most of the groundbait is still on the bottom of the pond....

[Phone]

Androo,

 

Analysis of angling vulnerability of common carp, Cyprinus carp in catch‐and‐release angling in ponds (Hunter & Wisby 1964; Beukema & Vos 1974) and a thousand more. BTW common carp are quite smart by fish standards. Do not expect frequent citations like this, I consider myself an expert on carp. You may quote me.

 

As (bad) luck would have it, I do have a similar (although flawed IMO) study from the Netherlands that says carp are smarter than a whip for up to a year. I hope you don't find this article (about 1974).

 

As for predators, I am not a source or even sure of what I am talking about. I've just always been told predators are the stupidest of all fishes (no facts). Pike are at the top of the heap.

 

Phone

[Phone]

Androo,

 

While in search of the perfect bait knowing the "learning curve" was thought to be a top priority to avoid false negatives. A lot of time and effort went into this subject.

 

Another variable "test" was "line shy". The first 25 kg of popup boilies (fishmeal) I ever saw were used in the following manner. One kg was randomly distributed in about an acre - maybe two pond. One boilie was attached to a plastic coated cord of slightly less than a 1/4 inch. Testing repeatedly over a week (and as best 3 of us could determine) boilies were selected and consummed at a completely random pace and place. The one with the rope had no statistical significance. Lots of other "line shy" tests also. (i.e. line contact avoidance on sinking line)

 

I've tried any number of "hook prick" tests - really just too many variables to give you much of anything but opinion and experience. The nearest I can come where enough fish were involved was with very heavily stocked paylake fish, caught 100's of times in their remaining lifetime. They seem to succumb at a slightly slower pace than newly stocked fish. It evens out in a week or so. On paylakes that close for a week after restocking there is no noticable difference between old and new fish when angling resumes. (FYI - restocking usually entails 4 or 5 thousand pounds of new fish.)

 

Phone

[RUDD]

Having watched fish feeding at two clear local fisheries - wary roach feeding at one water and a mixture of Tench, Carp and Crucians at another I can tell you that they all pick up a few morsals from the baited area but are very wary over a bed of bait picking off a morsal here and there then swimming out of the area before coming back.

Any single / stray bits of bait that land away from the area get picked up with much more confidence.

 

Any decent match angler will tell you that fish back off a baited area as a match progresses and fishing a up to a meter either side or beyond the area can but some bites off a bigger stamp of fish.

 

Fishing a single boilie away from a small area of tightly feed boilies on a clear water fishery where there is no night fishing has also worked for myself on more than one occasion

[Phone]

Rudd,

 

I've never match fished but I 100% believe everything in your post. As I pointed out - and could never figure out - there seems to be no rhyme or reason to which "few morsals" the fish were going to pick up in the baited area. As best I determined it is totally random. On the edge of the baited area considerably more selectivity prevailed.

 

Phone

[davedave]

Great post RPM. I must admit many people from a local club water have moaned and groaned that they're not catching enough, and have buggered off to another club where they have a lovely carp puddle for them. They're not content with fishing a water with 4lb chub, 4lb+ perch, eels and tons of roach and some big rudd as well. Although carp fishing can be nice on occasion, I know that if I had a choice of one of those waters I could fish, I know which one I would choose