Chew does another monster

[Dick Dastardly]

_{Ive not explained myself very well (or in fact come across properly!) As I first said I don't know why Chew is bucking the normal trend and have offered a few sugestions. Also I have offered qalternative answers to your questions in a hope that people would add more (your self included})

 

To explain my position and indeed what lead me to make the statements I have- I was very heavily involved in the early days of the TR revolution getting acsess to many for many. I am also lucky enough to have fished on all the major initial trials on the major resses. I count all of the acknowledge TR experts (angling wise) of the late 80's to the new century as friends and fishing companions. I was heavily involved with the Pike fishing on both Bewl Water and Bough Beech. Up to now Ive never spoke publicly about my angling at Bewl for fear of jepordising it. However most in the piking world new of it and now the piking is finished there I will no longer be fishing it so have nothing to loose and my partner who worked there full time has also since left..Now my involvement with both gave me far more than the privaledged fishing I enjoyed there but also acsess to the world of trout reservoir management. You can no doubt guess what doors this opens for you and the information you are privy to. I hate to sound big headed but Im afraid this experience has simply made me one of the small group of "experts!" (for lack of a better description) on the subject. Maybe not so current now admittedly but many still remember and I am one of those "privalidged" few you mention who gets invited to fish and doesnt have to worry about getting a ticket for "trial days" Yes it is "unfair" but that's the way of the world.

 

Again Im afraid its pointless trying to debate this with many people as they simply don't have the practical experience of both TR management or TR piking and certainly not the combination of the two. Like I said a handful of people.Sound very arrogant don't I ? but no other way to say it! I tried to edge around it but it seems best to just lay the cards on the table. I can hear people saying now "Never heard of Budgie Burgess" but that Im afraid just proves my point! anyone who does have the knowledge/experience Im on about will have.

 

Yes the days I had the run of Bewl and helped run the trials at both Bough and there are gone but the point is I WAS THERE! and few others can say that! Old experience to base these things on admittedly but EXPERIENCE non the less.

 

The things you say Ive3 contradicted my self on...well I will try and clear them up. Other than the lumps we killed in gill nets I know of only 5 fish in total (Im talking big fish) that were found during the period dead at Bewl and only two at Bough........BUT I took many many dead fish out of our holding cages! fish that anglers had caught and seemingly without any harm.I again refer to all the great TR's of the 90's tell me how many are still producing (in fact ever produced like the initial few trials) where did these fish all go to? That's how I KNOW they die after capture not by the ocaissional body found. In the cold water conditions that these trials are inevitably held in dead fish normally sink (the swim bladder don't pop em up its the gas from decomposition) they then rot on the bottom.I dived Bewl after the great Perch deaths and seen the bottom littered with big perch corpses but never seen one floating!

 

Anyway this isn't about me claiming to be "best placed to comment" I was just tryinfg to justify my comments and point out the simple fact that there are very few who are placed to make educate,knowledgable contributions to such a specialist subject.

 

Did I offend you when I questioned your stance on TR piking? I certainly didn't mean to but by your reply I sense I must have? As you are allways such an interesting contributor on here I was genuinely interested in your views and therefore your stance.

 

Re the braid I wont bother answering that as no doubt some one will take the wrong reaction to me trying to share more "insider" information. People who wouldn't will have already asked my opinion privately and I will have responded.I shouldnt have got drawn in on this one but I did.....................................

[Dick Dastardly]

Oh should also mention then when I mentioned the wrong grapvine etc I was talking generally and not as such directly aiming this at you. Simply because other than here I don't know you so wouldn't know your contacts/situation/experience etc as I certainly wouldn't expect you to know mine unless you are a part of a very small group which obviously your not.

[philocalist]

Dick / Budgie - no offense intended - or taken for that matter.

FWIW, I appreciate the clarification you made about your knowlege of the demise of numbers of pike - I suspected that something along the lines of your explanation would be the answer to an apparent contradiction.

Budgie Burgess? Yep - absolutely correct - the name means no more to me than mine would to you - though somewhere at the back of my mind it nags that you used to post on here under this name, even relatively recently, perhaps prior to adopting an alter-ego?

I'm guessing that the circles I move in are possibly even smaller than yours, and almost certainly seperated by geography - definitely seperated by other 'qualifying' interests too no doubt? ... that said, for my sins, I spent a not inconsiderable amount of time around Maidstone circa 1980, and even longer around Haslemere a few years later, though I very much doubt our paths ever crossed.

My stance on TR piking? How could I possibly be offended, when I honestly decribe my attitude in that direction as ambivalent? - I guess all that I was trying to convey at that stage was that I'm very happy to be doing the donkey-work, and reaping rewards from that in my own quiet way - I've never sought publicity (Hell - even as an ex pro photographer - amongst other things - I rarely even bother to photograph the fish!), but that in itself can actually open the occasional door too, of which no doubt you may already be aware - sometimes 'private' waters want to remain that way for a reason

Edited November 2, 2013 by philocalist

[Dick Dastardly]

Yes sorry always been under my real name (or what people have always known me as) on here but a couple of seasons ago Si changed it to Dick Dastardly as a reference to a joke on the Wingham Fish In! Should get it changed back really as it has caused some confusion before this!

 

I see what your saying re the TR fishing now and understand. Its not the TR fishing itself but the way it comes about? I see hundreds of people at them who arte not really interested in the piking itself but just the chance of an "easy" big fish. Please note I think there is nothing EASY about actually catching one (all though like all angling there is an undoubted element of luck) but more as you say the fact that the "ground work" to find these monsters is side stepped by just applying to a known water.

 

There have always been a few if us that have been a few lucky enough to have acsess outside of these "circus's" but by the very nature of it it has always been something we have had to be very selfish about as Im sure you can appreciate.

 

Its gone for me now but I tell you I will never forget the feeling of excitement, unbelievable privaledge of turning up out of season (trout) at a TR opening the gate with my own key and having one of the countries premier trout waters all to myself (well with my mate!). And as for pushing a multitude of bank sticks in to "hallowed ground" well that's "sex wee" time!

 

[philocalist]

I guess, in fairness we are both singing a very similar song here - keyboards are a brilliant tool for screwing up the nuances of communication

Scarborough is close enough to make daytrips to the seaside there dead easy; rumour has it that a lake local to there has a very large, nay MASSIVE pike resident. Substantiated reports indicate that quite a few 'top' names have shown up there since it's first capture, presumably to add it to their list of conquests - with varied degrees of success.

It's on my doorstep and known to be within spitting distance of the record fro the species.

Am I breaking my neck to take a quick trip down to try catch it?

Would you?

[Dick Dastardly]

No not my cup of tea either! Im allways interested in what waters are producing/have produced as this certainly shows their potential. However Im not interested at all in trying to catch a particular fish!

 

That said I think its to easy to dismiss the list of caputres from some of these "chasers" as it must take a lot of dedication,drive and hardwork but its simply not for me!

[barry luxton]

I (and many other TR Pike specialists have long believed that most of the TR pike we catch don't survive the experience.

 

Hummm, looks like a particular org was supporting sending 'em back dead. They were instrumental in working out slot sizes along with the freshwater take ban.

 

quote philocist:

... if you actually have the information, as you implied, I can't help but think that it would be not only polite, but extremely helpful to all the other contributors too, no?

 

That info will be of particular interest to a particular fishy org to make sure their policies are fit for purpose.

[philocalist]

@ Dick / Budgie / anyone else who cares to chip in.

Been pondering this enigma of Chew apparently constantly producing very big pike - and lets assume for a moment that previously caught big pike may well end up on the bottom, hence the low instance of re-capture (and lack of evidence of big pike not surviving capture)

.

We all know that pike love eating smaller pike, and will happily take take deadbaits of almost any species, including those they are never likely to see naturally (sea fish) - , i.e. scavenge from the bottom.

It's also been noted that pike are likely to take a big bait over a small one, the thought being a bigger protein meal for the same effort expended.

 

A bit controversial perhaps, but is it stretching the realms of possibility too much that BIG pike could actually be scavenging off the carcasses of big dead pike, producing rapid growth rates by providing easy, large protein meals quite regularly - topped up by the occasional trout for dessert?

Now, I KNOW that pike have no incisors to speak of, so are hardly likely to be simply biting chunks off a carcass, but all pike have a serious dental array, and I can easily imagine that a very large pike clamped down onto a decomposing carcass would have little problem in tearing chunks off.

 

Just idle speculation, of course ... anyone have any intelligent thoughts / comments?

Edited November 4, 2013 by philocalist

[Dick Dastardly]

Doesn't ring right to me mate as there is never a shortage of food in any TR and the energy expended to get it is minimal. Also ALL of the TR's Ive had the run of the mill on (bait and method wise) have NEVER responded to deadbaits.TR Pike show a very similar feeding MO on all these ressies which is different to most non TR waters. They seem to be very "pre programed" in the way they feed and being simple creatures cant/don't change or modify this. Im more of the opinion that the Chew Pike are more hardier and not dying from being caught.I would love to have some good info on recaptures and some details on their ages (as I suspect the big ones at Chew may be slower growing than their cousains in other ressies) Most Big TR pike are not that old in comparison to the same sized (or to avoid confussion I should say "weight" not size) non TR fish. Think of them as fat overweight teenagers rather than fully grown mature adults.

 

As Chew was never a "contender" in my day I didn't bother cultivating any contacts with the staff there and only knowledge I have is from my own handful of trips there (on official days) and that of mates who have fished there. Its only in relatively recent years that the fishing there has been good enough to really attract attention..............and indeed this in turn raises the question why? Why has it never produced in by gone years and now does?Very likely the reasons why are linked with the original question we ask!

 

As well as food it seems to me that water quality is a great contributor to big TR pike. When the pipe was built to pump water from the Medway into Bewl water it was both noticeable how this affected the water clarity and eventually the piking. Certainly stopped the place (IMO) being the countries No 1 water. In fact this did more damage to the waters ability to keep on throwing up above record pike than all the years of gill netting ever did!

 

Be a very worthwhile study for any fisheries student.

[Anderoo]

I know very little about trout reservoir pike, but I do find it all very interesting. On the question of why Chew continues to produce big (i.e. heavy and relatively fast-growing) pike, and thinking about Budgie's comments regarding the real/non-public management of these waters, I wonder if some stocking is taking place to keep the pike levels topped up.

 

Farmoor is near me, and has never been a good pike water from what I gather. Very few pike ever caught at the trials, albeit one big one last year, despite excellent water quality, plenty of weed, and endless trout dinners. So Thames water have now decided to stock some pike and open it up to predator fishing, presumably in an effort to keep the tills ringing throughout the winters when most of the trout anglers are sitting by the fire waiting for spring. I might be way off, but it does occur to me that something similar might be quietly going on at Chew to keep the big fish coming year after year.