Fish Driven from North Sea

[Guest stevie cop]

Hey Toerag, if anglers were taking 100 X 20lb Cod off of that wreck every trip, I'm not surprised that there aren't any left!

[big_cod]

torag is probably right, 25years ago here at whitby the fishing was silly, i use to go jigging commercialy myself is was not uncommon to get 200 stome in a days jigging 150lb traces 1 jigger and 1 muppet only and hope you didnt get smashed, but the matter is if it had been line fishing only over the years we would stil have a very healthy fisherie 600 stone of small codling in trawl 400 stone back over the side ,now that is a lot of individual fish thousands to be exact.

[Jaffa]

@SPRING@:

Jaffa.

 

I know you will rubbish anything I say that is not backed up by science. But wouldnt you expect fishing for sandeal with the current effort would have some impact on the sandeal stocks????? You cant take that amount of fish from the sea and expect it not to. In turn the food source is not there for the birds and so they starve to death.

 

Are the sandeals being caught or are they dieing as a result of global warming?

 

As for you saying the boats cant catch thier quota . What exactly does that mean? I bet that guy from the shetland (overfishing of makeral) was under quota on paper.

@spring@, common sense would seem to say that but it does not appear to be the case. This level of fishing has been going on for over 20 years!. Bearing in mind that many sandeels reach maturity in less than a year, and at most 4 years, and that natural mortality still exceeds fishing mortality, the overfishing theory just does not add up IMO.

 

Nor is there any correlation between those sandeel stocks being heavily fished and the areas where the seabird colonies are failing.

 

Why on earth would quota busting be involved if, from a 2004 quota of 700000 tonnes, the Danes were only able to catch only half that? What possible reason or incentive would there be?

 

The evolving RSPB take on things is interesting:

 

http://www.rspb.org.uk/Images/FisheriesExe...tcm5-64251.doc.

 

 

quote:

---

Industrial fishing for North Sea sandeels

ICES has assessed the North Sea sandeel fishery - used in producing fish meal and oil mainly for use in aquaculture - to be at historic low level. This year - yet again - the Danish fleet, which has the lions share of the fishery, was only able to catch around 300,000 tonnes out of its 700,000+ tonnes quota.

The poor state of the stock resulted not only in the Danish fleet massively undershooting its quota again this year, but also in sandeel-dependent seabirds all along the North Sea coast of Scotland and England suffering their worst breeding season in living memory. We believe that this signals an unprecedented deterioration of the stock due to rising sea temperatures undermining sandeel recruitment. Industrial fisheries have a responsibility not to make the situation worse.

Because the strength of the 2004 year class is uncertain, ICES was not in a position to advise a Total Allowable Catch (TAC) for 2005. Instead, ICES has advised real-time monitoring in spring in order to assess the strength of the stock and thus determine what the fishing effort should be in 2005. We welcome the introduction of real-time monitoring in order to fine-tune the regulation of sandeels which we know to be prone to short-term fluctuations. To underline how seriously ICES regards the state of the stock, they predict that it will be necessary to impose a 40% reduction in the 2004 effort. Translated into catch limit terms, a 40% cut would reduce the TAC from 826,000 tonnes in 2004 to 495,600 tonnes in 2005. This is still nearly 200,000 tonnes more than the Danish fleet were able to catch last year, which underlines the need for a continuing precautionary approach. We urge that the effort monitored at the start of the season should be at a very low, precautionary level to avoid further damage to the stock until it can be quantified.

We also strongly urge the continuation of the sandeel closure off the east coast of Scotland, and the continued closure of the small inshore fishery in the south of Shetland (negotiated by the Shetland Fishermens Association, Scottish Natural Heritage and RSPB) as precautionary measures against further breeding failures in Scotlands internationally important seabird colonies.

---

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Hi Jaffa

This part of the quote starts:

 

"We believe that this signals an unprecedented deterioration of the stock due to rising sea temperatures undermining sandeel recruitment. Industrial fisheries have a responsibility not to make the situation worse."

 

When anyone makes a statment starting "We believe" it is because they don't know. It is an assumption not facts.

 

My assumption would be "To extract that tonnage of sandeels from the system year on year for twenty years is bound to have an impact on stocks"

[Jaffa]

Thats the point Ken, that was everyones assumption, including mine, for years and it was wrong.

 

Nobody can say for sure what is going on, except to say its environmental and not down to fishing. I wish it was fishing; the implications of this are far more serious.

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Why are you so convinced it is not down to over fishing?

[Jaffa]

Ken, If it was overfishing then you would expect the collapse to only be happening in those stocks (mainly located in the central North Sea) which are heavily fished: This is just not the case, with unfished stocks also failing.

[Guest jay_con]

I wouldnt read too much into what has been caught on paper. If Black fish is as common as it's said to be then quite probably a large amount of the catch will not have been recorded.

 

It is apparent that there are 2 facors at play in the decreasing numbers of all stocks: Global warming and Overfishing. One of these we can control with ease if we so wish. We could stop overfishing tomorrow simply by enforcing cfp, or to save arguments employ a new policy which everyone is happy to abide by which will ensure sustainability (There goes another flying pig). The second is a little bit more difficult to turn around especially with the Americans (god love em)

taking such a negative stance on the issue. Even if things changed who is to say things could be turned around fast.

 

The one thing we can impact on most is overfishing and we must do our very best to ensure it stops before it's too late. Anybody who wishes to get things changed should be writing to Mr Bradshawe begging him to go with Europe This year and allow closed zones in the North Sea and all the other measures that were proposed but voted against last DEC as it was election year and Mr B didnt want to rock the boat. THIS YEAR WE MUST SEE CHANGES - No more lets wait and see comments as they get us nowhere.

[Jaffa]

@SPRING@:

I wouldnt read too much into what has been caught on paper. If Black fish is as common as it's said to be then quite probably a large amount of the catch will not have been recorded.

In 25 years, I've never heard even so much as a rumour that quota busting has happened in the sandeel fishery, yet you, who until two weeks ago did'nt know boats like the Altaire existed, appear to know different, and now suggest the paperwork was wrong?!

 

Please do share your information before making the brave call for other people to lose their jobs :mad:

[Guest jay_con]

If 80 percent of the scottish fleet break the law everytime they put to sea as some reports have suggested. If, as is alleged (we will have to wait for the outcome of a rather large court case) many many fishermen from my home time have broken the rules in many ways including misrecording catches, Then I feel I can safely conclude that the figures for our country could indeed wrong. How on this earth can you suggest they are right ???? Is it wrong to assume that figures for other countries could also be wrong???? or does the problem of misrecording only happen here????

 

 

In answer to your second comment. If they dont change thier ways they will all be out of a job and sooner rather than later. If some have to loose thier jobs that is unfortunate but I would rather some lost thier jobs than all of them,and that includes indirectly all those who have a stake in the recreational fishery which is about on its knees through no fault of its own.

I stand by what I say it is time for a change, time to stop saying lets wait and see. Time to make a real effort. Anyone who wishes to see more fish in the sea needs to write To mr Bradshawe and express how important it is for him to listen to the eu rather than give in to pressure from our fishermen who it appears are a bunch of lieing thieves. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: .

 

With regard to your comment about boat sizes. Is that really an issue in this debate? So I never knew such large boats existed. It really just makes the whole issue much worse doesn't it???. Bigger boats equal more fish taken equals less left in the sea, Or have you some ingenious scientific magic formula the makes the answer More fish in the sea?????????? :mad: :mad: :mad: