Cod As A Species Has No Chance Of Survival Say Wwf

[Guest Feels like Winter to me]

Really?! could it have been one of big cods trips wot did it?

 

 

Nah its John who gets £2000 quids worth of fillets per trip.

[wurzel]

Hello Newt

 

Quote

group has it wrong, the UK fishing will collapse completely so disaster for commercial fishermen

 

Very few commercial fishermen rely on cod.

 

Hello Jaffa

 

You are right to say there is not so many large cod as there was 90 years ago, it's normal for a stock that is fished for, the same can be said about bass yet there are 3 or 4 massive successfull years brood comeing on, so theres plenty enough to replenish the stock, I'm sure its the same for cod if conditions become faverable.

 

You are probably right about the hard ground, but the wrecks and rigs are extra ground that were not there 90 years ago. Pahaps they will be the saveing grace for cod. Have you still got many boats fishing the hard ground for cod in your area?

[Guest Feels like Winter to me]

Hello Newt

 

Quote

group has it wrong, the UK fishing will collapse completely so disaster for commercial fishermen

 

Very few commercial fishermen rely on cod.

 

Hello Jaffa

 

You are right to say there is not so many large cod as there was 90 years ago, it's normal for a stock that is fished for, the same can be said about bass yet there are 3 or 4 massive successfull years brood comeing on, so theres plenty enough to replenish the stock, I'm sure its the same for cod if conditions become faverable.

 

You are probably right about the hard ground, but the wrecks and rigs are extra ground that were not there 90 years ago. Pahaps they will be the saveing grace for cod. Have you still got many boats fishing the hard ground for cod in your area?

 

Its not all about cod though Wurzel. How many species are above safe levels according to ICES ?????

 

Yes I know you will say ICES are clueless. I could have this debate with myself.

[Jaffa]

Hello Newt

 

Quote

group has it wrong, the UK fishing will collapse completely so disaster for commercial fishermen

 

Very few commercial fishermen rely on cod.

 

Hello Jaffa

 

You are right to say there is not so many large cod as there was 90 years ago, it's normal for a stock that is fished for, the same can be said about bass yet there are 3 or 4 massive successfull years brood comeing on, so theres plenty enough to replenish the stock, I'm sure its the same for cod if conditions become faverable.

 

You are probably right about the hard ground, but the wrecks and rigs are extra ground that were not there 90 years ago. Pahaps they will be the saveing grace for cod. Have you still got many boats fishing the hard ground for cod in your area?

 

Not locally;: Theres a couple of prawn trawlers, a few creelers, and thats about it. Not seen a trawler close inshore in years. Arbroath is pretty much on its last legs fishing wise.

 

I can see cod making a comeback if conditions are good for a few years but what are the implications of losing all the bigger fish? Historically the sizes have reduced since man first went fishing. The biggest cod would be what? 200lbs or more; do you think any fish like that still exist? does it matter?

 

 

Nah its John who gets £2000 quids worth of fillets per trip.

 

and the total fish killed by the Whitby charter fleet (regardless if its taken home whole in a bin liner or filleted just after catching) would be what per year?

Edited December 23, 2005 by Jaffa

[Guest Feels like Winter to me]

Not locally;: Theres a couple of prawn trawlers, a few creelers, and thats about it. Not seen a trawler close inshore in years. Arbroath is pretty much on its last legs fishing wise.

 

I can see cod making a comeback if conditions are good for a few years but what are the implications of losing all the bigger fish? Historically the sizes have reduced since man first went fishing. The biggest cod would be what? 200lbs or more; do you think any fish like that still exist? does it matter?

and the total fish killed by the Whitby charter fleet (regardless if its taken home whole in a bin liner or filleted just after catching) would be what per year?

 

 

Sorry m8 I wouldnt know where to get such figures, I dont think its ever been surveyed. Many a good days catch is followed by a bad one despite what some would have you believe.

[Jaffa]

Sorry m8 I wouldnt know where to get such figures, I dont think its ever been surveyed. Many a good days catch is followed by a bad one despite what some would have you believe.

 

Im well aware of how catches can vary but would assume any skipper worth that name would have a fair idea of how many stone his anglers took in a year, how many boats worked from his port, and could come up with a fair estimate.

[wurzel]

Hello Winter

 

Quote

 

Historically, the North Sea has not been the most abundant producer of cod; in the 16th through 19th centuries Dutch fishermen sailed to Iceland for cod rather than staying on the North Sea (Brander 1994). There was, however, a large increase in numbers of cod in the 1960’s, a phenomenon seen in many gadoid populations, and given the name the ‘gadoid outburst’ (Holden 1981

 

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but from 1981 there has been a steady decrease in the population, and biomass is now at the same levels as before the 1960’s

 

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Wurzel - how can u make a fair comparison between 1900 and now???? lets have a look at the hardware.

 

 

But it does not seem to have made that much difference.

[Guest Feels like Winter to me]

Jaffa - As I say, sorry cant help. Perhaps you best ask a skipper.

 

Wurzel my point is and remains how can you say there were no fish at these times??? The men now are using huge vessels with top electronics and nets that can be dragged anywhere meaning even if there are very few cod they can locate them and catch them, the men in 1600 were sailing in what? Tiny boats with: sails, no electronics, etc etc.

 

How can people possibly try to make a like for like comparison.

[Leon Roskilly]

There are cod in Newfoundland.

 

Huge populations of cod exist in Trinity Bay and Bonavista Bay.

 

Under the cod recovery programme, with fishing for cod banned on most of the banks, these populations were supposed to spread out and repopulate the banks, but they don't.

 

They stay crammed together in the bays.

 

"This body of cod has been analysed to death. There is a spawnining biomass of 50,000-60,000 tons (more than ICES says is now contained in the North Sea!) where once there was 1.5 million.

 

There's nothing left.

 

We have 380 shrimp vessels fishing on the Grand Banks.

 

We have no cod by-catch problem.

 

We would love to have that problem because it would give us some indication of recovery.

 

It doesn't exist.

 

There is no indication that recovery has begun or is even possible"

(The End of the Line)

 

 

Will isolated cod in the North Sea eventually spread out and re-populate, given a chance?

 

 

 

Also this might be relevant:

 

> However, one thing that

> has yet to come across is the potential importance of ensuring genetic

> diversity in the stock. Over time, a number of exploited stocks have

> exhibited a reduction in the age and size at spawning. For example, the

> age at first spawning for both north sea cod and plaice has reduced from

> about 5-6 years down to about 2-3 years since the start of the last

> century. There is an equivalent reduction in size at spawning. The fact

> is that only those fish that spawn early and small survive sufficiently

> long to reproduce (I would need to check my facts on the ages and sizes

> before I discussed in public, but the trend is absolutely correct).

>

> Further, the contribution to spawning that one 6kg bass can make is so

> much more than the contribution that six 1kg fish can. The eggs are

> bigger, more viable, better performing and there are far, far more of

> them. I've tried to find a picture that expresses this, but haven't got

> a lot of time to do it at the moment- sorry. But there's a number of

> well documented examples where people have estimated the contributions

> of big -v- small fish. It's stunning how many small, first spawners are

> needed to come up to the same level as a single older mature one. Apart

> from anything else, the genetic reality is that big fish can produce

> more big fish. Small, early reproducing fish may (and the evidence from

> cod and plaice is that they do) produce smaller, earlier reproducing

> individuals. The result is that we end up with a stock of smaller fish.

> This is exploitation exerting evolutionary pressure- it's Darwinian

> selection in action!

>

> Another thing, one of the New Zealand fisheries (hoki, I think) was

> studied and they found that out of a stock of something like 11,000

> tonnes, the virtual population size was something like 600 fish. I.e.,

> there were only something like 600 different genetic strands within the

> population. It is fairly easy therefore to knock off those strands and

> to reduce the overall diversity of the stock. It's quite frightening, I

> think, to reduce fish populatiosn down to that level. If some of those

> strands are more susceptible to exploitation (or disease, or

> environemntal perturbation, or other things) then you end up being left

> with relatively few strands left to keep the stock going.

>

> The follow-on in thinking is this: The Newfoundland herring fishery was

> decimated (and the Hawaiian lobster fishery also, for the same reason),

> because whilst a very precautionary TAC was set for the stock (about F=

> 0.1, which translated into a 100K tonne fishery from a million tonne

> stock), the effort was exerted on a series of genetic sub-stocks.

> Effectively, fishermen targeted the sub-stocks which shoaled closest to

> home, and over a period of years wiped them out successively. First the

> very near ones went, then ones further from home, then the furthest

> ones. Management shoudl have divided theeffort out over all the sub

> stocks rather than allowing all the effort to concentrate on one.

> Interestignly, there's four cod sub-stocks in the North Sea, but the

> stock is managed as one entity. Could be one of the principal issues in

> (lack of) cod recovery!

 

 

 

Tight Lines - leon

[big_cod]

Hello Winter

 

Quote

 

Historically, the North Sea has not been the most abundant producer of cod; in the 16th through 19th centuries Dutch fishermen sailed to Iceland for cod rather than staying on the North Sea (Brander 1994). There was, however, a large increase in numbers of cod in the 1960’s, a phenomenon seen in many gadoid populations, and given the name the ‘gadoid outburst’ (Holden 1981

 

Quote

but from 1981 there has been a steady decrease in the population, and biomass is now at the same levels as before the 1960’s

 

Quote

Wurzel - how can u make a fair comparison between 1900 and now???? lets have a look at the hardware.

 

 

But it does not seem to have made that much difference.

 

Wurze where did all the big cod come from during the 60ss which were caught by the scene netters of whitby,these fish were 20-30years old and some probably 40 years old did they just appear no they were spawned back in 1920ss 30ss and 40ss but you are saying there was hardly any cod then rubbish mate when i first started fishing for cod in the 60ss it was stupid it was teaming with them.

The british cod record which is held at whitby is 58lb a whopper you would say, (AND JUST FOR THE RECORD WURZEL IT WAS CAUGHT ON ROUGH GROUND NOT A WRECK I REPEAT NOT A WRECK ) now the fish was taken away for scientific tests to see how old the fish was and they said it was 40years old you can tell by the bones in the cods head i think that is how they can tell the age of the fish,

also i have seen photos of big catches of large cod taken from Dungerness beach in the 60ss again some of these fish were well over 20lb,

 

The point you are trying to make wurzel is this has all happened before another load of crap pelled by the commercial sector, the reason we are in the position we are now is OVER FISHING what took millions of years to evolve has been marmerlized in the last 25years ,can you tell me if there had been no trawling in the last 100 years the cod stocks would be in the position they are now please dont say yes wurzel binitone might though.