French Pair Trawlers & the Palegic Fleet

[wurzel]

Hello Andrew

 

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I don't doubt some bass spawn "local to their summer grounds" but could you define "local"? likewise please confirm what you mean by "a lot"...

 

 

Well since I have been fishing for bass, 25 or more years, all the large female fish I catch between march and June are heavy with roe, once in a while the odd one will as you say be a spawner (running with the stuff) all male fish are running with milt,so by a lot, I could say that all the bass in and around the Thames estuary during April,May and June are spawning there, are you suggesting they travel from the SW aproaches then nip back to lay thier eggs and then come back again once finished, even doing the trip two or three times in a month?

 

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to my mind the logic of an industrial scale pair trawl fishery for winter spawning aggregations of slow growing fish is akin to the logic of a farmer going out each spring and killing his prize bull & cattle bloodline -

 

 

I agree, we said exactly that 20 years ago when they first started, here we are 20 years later, several thousand tons of bass later, and still no sighn of the stock diminishing, infact the scientist say it has increased, it is being fished sustainable they say.

There is no way I would be able to prove they have effected my catches.

 

 

 

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those fish would make a greater "value" (however defined ) in the hands of "inshore" fishermen, anglers & artisans...

 

enough for now

 

 

 

Not from a French pair trawler skippers point of view.

 

I would like to see the back of them, I am just tring to point out the reasons given to ban them would not stand up in any EU discussion or what ever they do to decide these things.

[Andrew Syvret]

Hello again Wurzel,

 

I would like to see the back of them, I am just tring to point out the reasons given to ban them would not stand up in any EU discussion or what ever they do to decide these things.

Good to know where you are coming from. Why worry whether the pseudo reasons stand up or not? To borrow a phrase from an earlier post of yours on this thread:

 

Both camps are guilty of cherry picking the bits of information that suits their cause, it's called politics.

 

So I guess we both know that realistically, logic, fact & the false idol that is "objectivity" will likely play only a small part in any discussion in Brussels? Only a winter or two back I remember the inflated price of fuel being quoted as a potential disaster for the pair teams - threatening to put them out of work. The dolphin issue could similarly be considered a major political "diversion" could it not?

 

At the end of the day, like it of loathe it, the CFP charges States with making the socioeconomic "most" of their fisheries resources on a sustainable basis, we're all tied into the UN FAO's Code of Conduct for Responsible Fisheries, Precautionary Principle, and on... What those instruments are worth beyond paper is open to debate, but if they at least serve to benchmark what we should be aiming for, the winter pair trawl fishery for bass falls a long way short. I'm sure several (hundred) thousand inshore fishers across the UK, France & beyond would agree. A very few people benefit from the industrial fishery we both wish to halt. Economically it's nonsense - bass has been condemned as pig feed in the past and the prices I posted for farmed/lined/trawled bass are a graphic illustration of what is possible with "value adding" ~ urghh, excuse the Seafish speak. Anyway, you get the idea & know all this already. Personally I think anything is possible in politics - positive & disasterous. Everyday votes are what buy influence and thus policy. Consequently, most politicians are "affordable" in my book. And there's nothing more satisfying than beating them over the head with their own "strategic sticks". (Although I write from outside the EU of course.)

 

I don't doubt some bass spawn "local to their summer grounds" but could you define "local"? likewise please confirm what you mean by "a lot"...

 

Well since I have been fishing for bass, 25 or more years, all the large female fish I catch between march and June are heavy with roe, once in a while the odd one will as you say be a spawner (running with the stuff) all male fish are running with milt,so by a lot, I could say that all the bass in and around the Thames estuary during April,May and June are spawning there, are you suggesting they travel from the SW aproaches then nip back to lay thier eggs and then come back again once finished, even doing the trip two or three times in a month?

Likewise I've been chasing the silver ones for upwards of 25 years, on both sides of the argument at times. I've never towed anything but a lure or live bait for them though. I'm talking about the English Channel winter fishery, hopefully I made that clear previously - the Thames Estuary is beyond that surely? I take your point though - "your" fish may well be Channel fish at some point(s) each year. Working out their migratory/spawning habits is not easy without more research - maybe the as yet unrevealed tagging results will help? What we do know is that bass spawn in water 9degC and above, so I'm happy to accept there are many potential areas that suit them. But I'd wager these are still mostly "offshore" using our rough 12 mile definition. Doesn't seem too outrageous? Or does it?

 

FWIW I understand the reproductive physiology of male and female bass differs slightly - maturing eggs need so many degree/days to get to their final stage. By contrast a male bass is ready to go at a moment's notice once its testes are mature for the season and can stay in that condition for an extended period, perhaps going some way to explain why so many more of your males are "busting?"

 

 

to my mind the logic of an industrial scale pair trawl fishery for winter spawning aggregations of slow growing fish is akin to the logic of a farmer going out each spring and killing his prize bull & cattle bloodline

 

I agree, we said exactly that 20 years ago when they first started, here we are 20 years later, several thousand tons of bass later, and still no sighn of the stock diminishing, infact the scientist say it has increased, it is being fished sustainable they say.

There is no way I would be able to prove they have effected my catches.

 

ICES said the following last year: http://www.ices.dk/iceswork/wgdetailacfm.asp?wg=SGBASS

 

"The above analysis indicates that there are no problems with the exploitation of bass in relation to overall yield per-recruit or recruitment over-fishing in the North Sea, Channel, west coast of Britain and Biscay, though the population structure has certainly changed since data were first collected in the 1970s. In all areas, the high abundance of fish >20 years old associated with a virtually unexploited population has now declined, though strong cohorts are still recognisable at age 15+, and the incidence of above-average year classes has increased in the 1990s."

 

"Although bass stocks in Divisions IVb,c and VIIa,d,e,f,g,h, appear to be fished with an exploitation pattern that avoids growth over-fishing and at a fishing mortality level which is sustainable, given the uncertainties in the assessments and the possibility that an unfavourable change in environmental conditions may negatively influence recruitment, ICES considers that fishing mortality should not be allowed to increase."

 

So yup, I'd agree with you that bass are in no danger of becoming "threatened," however the fishery could be in a much condition and SHOULD be generating for all of us, the vast INSHORE MAJORITY, a far greater return on all fronts.

 

I'll leave it there for now, hopefully most of that makes some kind of sense, I'm happy to be taken to task on any of it, in the interests of constructive progress of course...

 

AJS