French Pair Trawlers & the Palegic Fleet

[wurzel]

FWIW

 

I understood that perhaps two hundred bass were tagged on the BB? To my knowledge no other bass have been tagged in the CI for several years. 3 returns from 20 indicates some significant level of fishing mortality does is not? Perhaps we are taking about data storage archival tags here then? I've had conventionally tagged "Jersey" summer fish returned from the same reef on which they were released, just days later; a fish that travelled over 1200km in just under two months & another taken by a Scottish pair team operating S of the Eddystone Light. My point?

 

Until CEFAS put all the tagging data they have accumulated (with significant public assistance & goodwill) into the public arena, we are all forced to speculate about what might/might not be revealed by the results. Which is not helpful IMHO. Why would they be so quiet, one wonders?

 

"I read it in the Fishing News so it must be true" & "don't confuse me with facts I've made up my mind" are two of the better escape lines I've heard trotted out by opposers of an increased MLS, amongst other things.

 

"Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative" Oscar Wilde

 

AJS

 

Hello Andrew,

 

I think they were the data storage tags, that is what they were using last week.

 

I think one of the problems is they are trying to make an exact science out of some thing that is constantly changing, just because they prove some bass done one thing one year does not mean all bass done the same the next.

Both camps are guilty of cherry picking the bits of information that suits their cause, it's called politics.

[Andrew Syvret]

Hello Andrew,

 

I think they were the data storage tags, that is what they were using last week.

 

I think one of the problems is they are trying to make an exact science out of some thing that is constantly changing, just because they prove some bass done one thing one year does not mean all bass done the same the next.

Both camps are guilty of cherry picking the bits of information that suits their cause, it's called politics.

 

Hi Wurzel,

 

amen to that - I'd guess some of the results are potentially quite "explosive" - probably got a lot to do with s'ones publication list, C.V. and professional ambitions I'd imagine too - will never forget a senior French fisheries scientist with Brussels DG XIV saying at a conference some years back words to the effect of (I forgot them exactly) "Scientists love complexity, it helps them preserve their social status, politicians equally love the same complexity, it helps them avoid taking difficult decisions."

 

the great tragedy is of course that while fishers (in the broadest sense of the word) squabble ~ Rome burns

 

can't help but think a fragmented & divided fishing community is much easier to manage - divide & conquer "n" all that

 

what to do?

 

allbest

 

Andrew

[steve good]

Been there, done that.

 

See:

 

http://ukbass.com/2005/11/basscbe-lobby-eu.html

 

http://ukbass.com/2005/11/very-successful-meeting.html

 

http://ukbass.com/2005/10/french-bass-concerns-grow.html

BASS invited the catching sector to join with them through a letter in Fishing News.

 

Guess how many responded?

 

0

 

'The French will take all the bass anyway' is probably too valuable an argument to lose, even though it is spurios as evidenced by CEFAS evidence showing that only around 10% of bass caught that are tagged in UK waters end up in the non UK catch, and showing that English bass are no longer migrating down to the South-West to spawn in any great numbers.

 

In any case, those bass caught in the spawning fishery by the pair trawlers are all well over the 40cm mls (they would be wouldn't they - they are fish that have grown big enough to spawn, ie mostly well over 45cm!)

 

Hi Leon

 

As a commercial fisherman I took the time and trouble to write to Joe Borg at the EU and to Bradshaw asking to ban all pair trawling during the bass spawning season, as reported in the fishing news, I did get a response from both of them.

 

There are some commercial fisherman trying to bring about change on the conservation front.

 

regards steve

[Leon Roskilly]

Hi Leon

 

As a commercial fisherman I took the time and trouble to write to Joe Borg at the EU and to Bradshaw asking to ban all pair trawling during the bass spawning season, as reported in the fishing news, I did get a response from both of them.

 

There are some commercial fisherman trying to bring about change on the conservation front.

 

regards steve

 

 

Hi Steve,

 

It was reported here:

 

http://www.sacn.org.uk/Conservation-and-Po...n_for_Bass.html

 

[wurzel]

Hi Leon

 

As a commercial fisherman I took the time and trouble to write to Joe Borg at the EU and to Bradshaw asking to ban all pair trawling during the bass spawning season, as reported in the fishing news, I did get a response from both of them.

 

There are some commercial fisherman trying to bring about change on the conservation front.

 

regards steve

 

 

Hello every body

 

 

If the RSA lobby had approached the commercials with the same sort of proposals and acted along with like minded commercials we would not be in the situation of bickering and trying to score political points off each other that we have now.

 

Instead they are(RSA) trying to use bullyboy stakebloodyholder tactics, trying to build bridges much to far, egged on by desperate for something to do DEFRA officials along with vote and revenue hungry politicians.

 

I think the RSA lobby needs to back off, hind sight can be a wonderful thing, the commercials are doing what any cornered animal will do, fight back, the RSA need to reassess their objectives discuss what is obtainable, scrap what is just fantasy and start again.

[stavey]

Hello every body

If the RSA lobby had approached the commercials with the same sort of proposals and acted along with like minded commercials we would not be in the situation of bickering and trying to score political points off each other that we have now.

 

Instead they are(RSA) trying to use bullyboy stakebloodyholder tactics, trying to build bridges much to far, egged on by desperate for something to do DEFRA officials along with vote and revenue hungry politicians.

 

I think the RSA lobby needs to back off, hind sight can be a wonderful thing, the commercials are doing what any cornered animal will do, fight back, the RSA need to reassess their objectives discuss what is obtainable, scrap what is just fantasy and start again.

 

Mr wurzel, would you care to outline in your honest opinion what proposals do you think are fantasy and what you may think is obtainable for the rsa?????????????????????????

[Leon Roskilly]

All that RSA has asked for is that the sector's needs should be considered in the management of fish stocks.

 

Even the most contentious measure so far, an increase in bass mls which is aimed at securing the long term prospects of both sectors, was too much for the catching sector who have fought against the measure fiercly, and continue to attempt to undermine the prospect of implementation of a 4cm increase.

 

Far, far short of the Prime Minister Strategy Unit's recommendation that bass should be managed wholly as a recreational species.

 

RSA could have gone all out for that, but it didn't, instead putting forward reasonable proposals that were felt would be of benefit to both sectors.

 

Perhaps that was RSA's biggest error, trying to accomodate the needs of the catching sector rather than going for broke in it's own interest.

 

Unfortunately the commercial reaction was on the lines of '"We don't mind you taking some of the left over crumbs from the table, but you will not get a slice of our cake"

 

The catching sector reps that I know seemed to be genuinely shocked when Bradshaw announced the bass mls increase, now they are determined to slap down this upstart RSA.

 

But they seem to be miscalculating.

 

The more they attack, the more the sleeping giant of hundreds of thousands of anglers stir.

 

 

At some point there is ging to be the realisation that RSA won't fit back into the box, and the catching sector has to both take note and advantage of that.

 

At that point we can both start to make real progress, working together to ensure a healthy and productive marine environment and a combined lobby that is strong and united, capable of developing the full potential of both sectors for the good of all.

Edited November 17, 2006 by Leon Roskilly

[wurzel]

All that RSA has asked for is that the sector's needs should be considered in the management of fish stocks.

 

Even the most contentious measure so far, an increase in bass mls which is aimed at securing the long term prospects of both sectors, was too much for the catching sector who have fought against the measure fiercly, and continue to attempt to undermine the prospect of implementation of a 4cm increase.

 

Far, far short of the Prime Minister Strategy Unit's recommendation that bass should be managed wholly as a recreational species.

 

RSA could have gone all out for that, but it didn't, instead putting forward reasonable proposals that were felt would be of benefit to both sectors.

 

Perhaps that was RSA's biggest error, trying to accomodate the needs of the catching sector rather than going for broke in it's own interest.

 

Unfortunately the commercial reaction was on the lines of '"We don't mind you taking some of the left over crumbs from the table, but you will not get a slice of our cake"

 

The catching sector reps that I know seemed to be genuinely shocked when Bradshaw announced the bass mls increase, now they are determined to slap down this upstart RSA.

 

But they seem to be miscalculating.

 

The more they attack, the more the sleeping giant of hundreds of thousands of anglers stir.

At some point there is ging to be the realisation that RSA won't fit back into the box, and the catching sector has to both take note and advantage of that.

 

At that point we can both start to make real progress, working together to ensure a healthy and productive marine environment and a combined lobby that is strong and united, capable of developing the full potential of both sectors for the good of all.

 

 

By real progress do you mean agreeing with every thing you (RSA) suggest?

[barry luxton]

By real progress do you mean agreeing with every thing you (RSA) suggest?

Hi Wurzel

 

Could you please give us all your take, on the current bass, cod situation and how you would move forward with regards to saving something for the future generations, perhaps give us your ideas on increasing the worth of the fish stocks, size maybee. Please do not say ban all rsa's or change of goverment, what do you consider the way forward realisticlly.

 

Regards barry

[Leon Roskilly]

By real progress do you mean agreeing with every thing you (RSA) suggest?

 

 

And there you have it.