Petition the PM, on-line in 2 mins, to save the fish stocks

[barry luxton]

I am the individual who posted the petition!

 

1. I am not trying to start a war against trawlermen.

 

2. The proposal is for the good of all.

 

3. It will help to ensure the future of all species of fish.

 

4. Specific species bans do not work due to the by-catch that are returned dead to the sea.

 

5. I proposed that AREAs of the sea should be closed for ten years, not the whole of the UK waters, to allow stocks to recover.

 

6. If we all continue to dither as has been the case for so long now, the sea bed, which is from where all sea life originates, and is ultimately sustained from will be so barren, due to bottom trawls scraping it for species they are allowed to catch under the present rules, there will be no fish of any sort left at all.

 

One does not need to be a scientist to see that.

 

By setting aside areas where nature is undisturbed for a reasonable period of time , and I don't mean a couple of square miles things can recover.

 

It is everyone's future that is put at risk if sacrifices are not made now.

 

 

Hi your petition would have a lot more credence if it was drafted fairly. To propose that the commercial sector and not all to be excluded for a period is unbalanced. As a dedicated rsa i'm willing to try anything that would make my fishing experience better but at the expense of not just commercial fishermen but all of the other trades in general, i.e. wet fish shops, fish and chip shops, the general public, cost increase over and above the price rises already in the pipeline. I do understand that what you propose could have an effect on the fish stocks in amount or size in general but there is also a lot of other possible reasons to consider for the lack of fish. I am aware that the south west commercial cod stocks are not in decline so global warming is not a major issue as far as i'm concerned. The north sea however is a concern but again there could be a variety of other reasons or issues to affect the cod stocks in particular . My personal consideration is that the food chain is being affected by overfishing in part and that by creating ntz just for commercial would not be the answer. I would suggest that the eu amend their current legalization to improve the foodchain by restricting the take of fishmeal products as apposed to a blanket ban somewhere or other as you propose.

Where do you consider that the areas of ntz could be, it appears to be vague and leaves the petition open to being watered down and to have less effect as other petitions may come along during the course of the next year of a similar nature.

 

kind regards barry

[wurzel]

I found another link

 

 

http://www.cefas.co.uk/Publications/files/notakezones.htm

 

 

I found another link

http://www.cefas.co.uk/Publications/files/notakezones.htm

 

 

I cherry picked this bit

 

the same closure would probably have no impact on the cod fishery. Indeed, ICES has already simulated the effects of closing each of four areas that approximate to 25% of the North Sea on the cod fishery.

 

In this case, closure of any one of these areas would provide no detectable fishery benefit. This is because the cod is such a mobile wide-ranging fish and would move in and out of any closed area; and because fishing effort in the closed area would be diverted elsewhere so that cod mortality would be just as high.

[Guest challenge]

Now for this post

So you admit that when you was a lad it was rare to catch bass, now it's hard not to. so can't you see that what is good for bass is not good for Cod? if the sea warms up any more I doubt my grand son will ever see a cod, all the bans and ntz's won't make the slightest difference. he'll probably be supplying fish and chip shops with fillets of bass. The nursery areas have a tiny effect compared to very mild winters.

I agree there is usually a run of small codling inshore, it is their nursery area after all, the bigger fish just don't seem happy to come inshore these days, we catch some offshore, and every time there is a colder period there seems to be more of them, but as you say not a patch on what we used to catch 20 years ago.

Although I sense a change this year, with signs of more cod showing, whether it's just a blip after a run of very cold northerly winds last spring, perhaps thing are starting to change back again, only time will tell.

It's all cycles, you mention the big cod caught from Dungeness beach during the 60 and 70's why did they not catch them during the 40 and 50's?

I do find the fish stocks I fish for are generally in good health, we have no trouble making a living from catching Dover soles, bass and skate, the few cod we catch are usually caught while fishing for other species.

I am not going to go into what I earn on here, I will say that if I don't get to sea from now till march, when the spring sole fishery starts, I won't starve, I am quite happy with the Cherokee Jeep thanks, and my son at 25 is looking to buy a house, his 5 th house, so no we are not looking in the nets wondering if there is enough to cover the mortgage , on the house or the boat. I had £35 in the bank when I managed to pursued the bank to lend me the money for my first boat, so it is fair to say that every thing I own has come from the sea.

So now am I a commercial fisherman struggling to find fish?

I don't know of any commercial fishermen that are.

I suppose if I was still long lining for cod, as I was 25 years ago I would have gone bust a long time ago.

Sill got the long lines, cause ya never know, and nor do most scientists.

 

over to you.

Best thing I have read on this forum. by the way wurzel we brought the boat from dry dock in hull yesterday down to Whitby, even at this time of year we passed a no take zone from spurn point to Whitby bell boy and two miles out to sea that no trawler in the right mind would go near with the amount of pots there where. Mind you not so bad as the summer months when we daren’t even steam inside of 2 mile for any distance in case we get one up in the forest of Enders you have to dodge. Trawlers would find it suicidal

Regards.

Edited November 25, 2006 by challenge

[Trubshaw]

Hi your petition would have a lot more credence if it was drafted fairly. To propose that the commercial sector and not all to be excluded for a period is unbalanced. As a dedicated rsa i'm willing to try anything that would make my fishing experience better but at the expense of not just commercial fishermen but all of the other trades in general, i.e. wet fish shops, fish and chip shops, the general public, cost increase over and above the price rises already in the pipeline. I do understand that what you propose could have an effect on the fish stocks in amount or size in general but there is also a lot of other possible reasons to consider for the lack of fish. I am aware that the south west commercial cod stocks are not in decline so global warming is not a major issue as far as i'm concerned. The north sea however is a concern but again there could be a variety of other reasons or issues to affect the cod stocks in particular . My personal consideration is that the food chain is being affected by overfishing in part and that by creating ntz just for commercial would not be the answer. I would suggest that the eu amend their current legalization to improve the foodchain by restricting the take of fishmeal products as apposed to a blanket ban somewhere or other as you propose.

Where do you consider that the areas of ntz could be, it appears to be vague and leaves the petition open to being watered down and to have less effect as other petitions may come along during the course of the next year of a similar nature.

 

kind regards barry

 

I am not the expert who knows where the NTZs should be. I agree that all NTZs should include barring taking for fish-meal products, as these are an important part of the food chain. The point is however you look at it, trawlers do damage stocks and also sea beds. The fact that they can now target shoals better than they could, due to modern technology has not helped the problem.

 

I have however been sea fishing for 24 years plus and seen the a dreadful decline in sizes and quantities over that time. Ask anyone who has been fishing longer than I have and they will say that it has got worse faster than before then. Also if you look at catch reports just after the last war, when hardly any trawlers were able to fish for 6 years. the catch rates for both shore and sea were vast. Besides modern studies, that surely is where the proof comes from that shows if you rest an area, stocks multiply.

 

At the end of the day, we all know the fish are disappearing, admittedly some sorts are on the increase, this is because of the disruption to the food chain caused by efficient trawling.

 

If something is done now, trawling can survive. if it is not, no one, RSAs trawlers or anyone will be be able to fish.

 

A petition is meant to cause thought and debate to come up with a workable solution. If I drafted it to take into account every ones' point of view, it would be thirty pages long and would lose the interest of all readers.

 

Henry

[wurzel]

Best thing I have read on this forum. by the way wurzel we brought the boat from dry dock in hull yesterday down to Whitby, even at this time of year we passed a no take zone from spurn point to Whitby bell boy and two miles out to sea that no trawler in the right mind would go near with the amount of pots there where. Mind you not so bad as the summer months when we daren’t even steam inside of 2 mile for any distance in case we get one up in the forest of Enders you have to dodge. Trawlers would be find it suicidal

Regards.

 

 

Hello challenge

 

That’s why these daft petitions and ideas are instigated by people who don't actually go to sea.

 

It's warring how green peace bought to the attention a bit of damage to some far off deep water reef by a trawler to the general public, has in a very short time, now been blown right out of context by media hype and gullible people like Trubshaw, to include all bottom trawling

 

 

Hello challenge

 

That’s why these daft petitions and ideas are instigated by people who don't actually go to sea.

 

It's warring how green peace bought to the attention a bit of damage to some far off deep water reef by a trawler to the general public, has in a very short time, now been blown right out of context by media hype and gullible people like Trubshaw, to include all bottom trawling

 

 

 

Worrying even

[Trubshaw]

Hello challenge

 

That’s why these daft petitions and ideas are instigated by people who don't actually go to sea.

 

It's warring how green peace bought to the attention a bit of damage to some far off deep water reef by a trawler to the general public, has in a very short time, now been blown right out of context by media hype and gullible people like Trubshaw, to include all bottom trawling

Worrying even

 

 

Wurzel

 

I am not a member of green-peace. I am campaigning to try and save your way of life for pity's sake. You have obviously read the report posted under Climate Change and Cod Fishing. If every one gives a bit now, yes I kknow its going to be painful, before its too late, there will be a chance that you will have something in the future. If you don't you won't.

 

Henry

[wurzel]

Wurzel

 

I am not a member of green-peace. I am campaigning to try and save your way of life for pity's sake. You have obviously read the report posted under Climate Change and Cod Fishing. If every one gives a bit now, yes I kknow its going to be painful, before its too late, there will be a chance that you will have something in the future. If you don't you won't.

 

Henry

 

 

I can earn a good living with out cod, in fact I would rather catch bass skate and sole in nice warm summer weather, than chasing around the north sea in the middle of winter like we used to.

If people like you had your way there would not be a future for commercial fishermen.

 

If every one gives a bit now?

so what bit are you going to sacrifice? make much difference to your life will it?

[Trubshaw]

I can earn a good living with out cod, in fact I would rather catch bass skate and sole in nice warm summer weather, than chasing around the north sea in the middle of winter like we used to.

If people like you had your way there would not be a future for commercial fishermen.

 

 

If every one gives a bit now?

so what bit are you going to sacrifice? make much difference to your life will it?

 

 

Put simply I won't be able to fish from the shore if nothing is done, there will be no point. You won't be able to make a living at all . Which is worse?

[barry luxton]

I am not the expert who knows where the NTZs should be. I agree that all NTZs should include barring taking for fish-meal products, as these are an important part of the food chain. The point is however you look at it, trawlers do damage stocks and also sea beds. The fact that they can now target shoals better than they could, due to modern technology has not helped the problem.

 

I have however been sea fishing for 24 years plus and seen the a dreadful decline in sizes and quantities over that time. Ask anyone who has been fishing longer than I have and they will say that it has got worse faster than before then. Also if you look at catch reports just after the last war, when hardly any trawlers were able to fish for 6 years. the catch rates for both shore and sea were vast. Besides modern studies, that surely is where the proof comes from that shows if you rest an area, stocks multiply.

 

At the end of the day, we all know the fish are disappearing, admittedly some sorts are on the increase, this is because of the disruption to the food chain caused by efficient trawling.

 

If something is done now, trawling can survive. if it is not, no one, RSAs trawlers or anyone will be be able to fish.

 

A petition is meant to cause thought and debate to come up with a workable solution. If I drafted it to take into account every ones' point of view, it would be thirty pages long and would lose the interest of all readers.

 

Henry

 

 

Hi Henry,

 

Just worked it out. i have been an rsa for forty years, up and down the south coast mainly. All in all i would say that i am mainly happy with my fishing exsperiance except for some obvious aspects of it. I have seen a huge increase in the last couple of years of small codling at the upper end of the channel. i have seen a large increase in the ammount of bass caught by rsa anglers both up and down the channel. I have seen a brilliant diversity of fishing in the middle channel including the channel islands.I do consider that there could be more done with regards to assisting fish stocks but to suggest ntz's just for commercial is too radical and one sided.

 

cheers barry

[fishyrob]

Hi Henry,

 

Just worked it out. i have been an rsa for forty years, up and down the south coast mainly. All in all i would say that i am mainly happy with my fishing exsperiance except for some obvious aspects of it. I have seen a huge increase in the last couple of years of small codling at the upper end of the channel. i have seen a large increase in the ammount of bass caught by rsa anglers both up and down the channel. I have seen a brilliant diversity of fishing in the middle channel including the channel islands.I do consider that there could be more done with regards to assisting fish stocks but to suggest ntz's just for commercial is too radical and one sided.

 

cheers barry

 

Barry, if NTZ's were estabished, they would also affect RSA's, as NOTHING could be TAKEN from the ZONE. This is precedented by the fact that with the last cod bans, charter skippers and private boats were prohibited from landing cod also. This is also precedented by the fact that Bass Nursery Areas are also prohibited to both Commercial fishermen and RSA's (except from the shore, which I dont agree with) So please dont think that anglers wouldnt be affected, because they would. And I am sure if areas were designated that charter skippers were working, some would also jump on the Anti-NTZ cripple cart.

I am also very suprised that you find your fishing on the south coast unaffected by the changes. Perhaps you always fished for pouting and flounders? Its a shame, because fifteen years ago I could have taken you to catch double figure bass under beachy head, in numbers, or out on the TableTops. Or fishing for 4lb+ plaice from Hayling bay. Not hoping for, but fishing for. Or numbers of blonde Rays off various banks around Selsey bill. Or forty tope over thirty pounds in five hours fishing in the channel. Even in the last five years, the average size of the Black Bream on my trips has dropped by one third, and all the fishing mentioned before, I couldnt find for you anymore, even if you paid me double. So, I am definately not happy with the general standard of my fishing over the last ten years. I wonder if anybody else out there is happy with the level of their catches over the last decade. Anyone reading this catching more and more fish, year on year?

 

Wurzel, I would truly love to come out and see for myself you going about your business. Not possible this side of Christmas unfortunately, but the way the winds are happening, I guess you arent doing so much at the moment. I will PM you with contact details etc. But one other thing. I guess you are familiar with a bank called the Kentish Knock. Many of the older Essex RSA's, charter skippers and commercials will probably know the name with fondness. Tell me what happened there?