Petition the PM, on-line in 2 mins, to save the fish stocks

[wurzel]

Dear Mr Wurzel,

 

Hope you had a good day. I am currently laid up with a broken ankle, so have been waiting patiently for your return.

 

You are entitled to your beliefs and me mine.

 

One thought from Fishyrob which spells it out better than I have been able to:

 

"it does look targetted towards commercials only, but dont forget this is a petition to the government, not setting a law down in the EU, if you get my point. Personally I see it as a way to show the government the level of concern that they are not taking ICES advice when deciding, or negotiating, fisheries policy. Others see it simply as a way to let the government know how many people are concerned about the marine environment."

 

That is all I am trying to do.

 

Kind regards

 

Henry

 

 

Then why do it by jumping on to such an extreme bandwagon, even ICES are not sure it would work for cod.

 

Why not petition for bigger MLS or to implement sustainable fishing methods eliminating discards, promote clean fisheries (no by catches like long lining, or large escape panels in trawls) make it advantages for fishermen to use these methods( more quota or days at sea )

These would be much more effective as it would cover all fishing areas and have the added bonus of backing by quite a lot of commercial fishermen.

[barry luxton]

Then why do it by jumping on to such an extreme bandwagon, even ICES are not sure it would work for cod.

 

Why not petition for bigger MLS or to implement sustainable fishing methods eliminating discards, promote clean fisheries (no by catches like long lining, or large escape panels in trawls) make it advantages for fishermen to use these methods( more quota or days at sea )

These would be much more effective as it would cover all fishing areas and have the added bonus of backing by quite a lot of commercial fishermen.

 

 

Please set that one up as a petition wurzel, i would sign it first given the chance. Include something for the rsa sector as well.

 

cheers barry

[Trubshaw]

Perhaps it seems that way because they have commercial experience, so deal in reality not fantasy or anglers perception.(JB is defiantly not just an angler with a boat)

 

Quote

even cod, as the Whitby charter fleet has proved this year.

I was including Big Cod, who is always quick to promote his better than national average catches of cod.

 

I wonder if he would sign the petition, especially if Whitby was to be included in a large NTZ.

 

 

Dear Wurzel,

 

Why is it that just about every recreational big game fishery, I would say all but cannot prove it at this stage, albeit I do believe all encourage the process, in the world, have changed their tactics from keeping catches to catch and return.

 

Answer to preserve stocks. In the late 60s and early 70s hundreds of blue sharks were landed each week in Cornwall by RSA, as were hundreds of thousands of tonnes of mackerel, the mackerel by trawlers and RSA. I remember in 1968 filling five dustbins with mackerel for use as rubbydubby in about 2 hours with feathers, between 5 of us. That week (6 days) as well, that boat landed 40 rod and line caught blues, two makos, the largest being 390lbs, and 12 porbeagles. I was working then as crew on a charter boat.

 

BY the 80s there were no mackerel to be had, maybe 2 sharks a day being caught by RSA. A policy was introduced to only catch and return.

 

Stocks have and are continuing to recover. Albeit not to the levels in the sixties.

 

The scottish salmon rivers have started to see higher catch returns, following the buy outs of the estuary nets and drift netting stations in the north sea. I wonder why?

 

The Kola Peninsular salmon rivers, that were opened to RA after the collapse of the Berlin Wall in 1989, give on average 200 pus salmon a week to a party of Anglers, and still do, whilst between 1986 and 2000, when the remaining nets were bought off in Scotland, the average catch on even the top beats was not more than 10 salmon per week. I wonder why?

 

The answer. During the cold war 1948-1989, trawling around the Kola Peninsular was banned as it was the main north sea open port for the Russian Navy.

 

Just because I do not go out in a boat and shoot nets each day does not make me a congenital idiot, who has no right to say what is plain for all to see. One does not need to be a piscatorial scientist to see what is plain as daylight.

 

THE EMPOROR HAS NO CLOTHES.

 

Hiding your eyes and saying I can't see he doesn't have any and if I do I will have to admit the fact that he is not wearing any, is not going to give him any.

 

I am not dealing in perception, I am dealing in reality. You sadly are dealing in "not in my backyard" attitudes that won't help anyone.

 

It is as much your future that I am campaigning to protect as my enjoyment and sport and livelyhoods of the entire RSA industry in this country who rely on the stocks just as much as the commercials do.

 

 

Henry

Edited November 26, 2006 by Trubshaw

[barry luxton]

Dear Wurzel,

 

Why is it that just about every recreational big game fishery, I would say all but cannot prove it at this stage, albeit I do believe all encourage the process, in the world, have changed their tactics from keeping catches to catch and return.

 

Answer to preserve stocks. In the late 60s and early 70s hundreds of blue sharks were landed each week in Cornwall by RSA, as were hundreds of thousands of tonnes of mackerel, the mackerel by trawlers and RSA. I remember in 1968 filling five dustbins with mackerel for use as rubbydubby in about 2 hours with feathers, between 5 of us. That week (6 days) as well, that boat landed 40 rod and line caught blues, two makos, the largest being 390lbs, and 12 porbeagles. I was working then as crew on a charter boat.

 

BY the 80s there were no mackerel to be had, maybe 2 sharks a day being caught by RSA. A policy was introduced to only catch and return.

 

Stocks have and are continuing to recover. Albeit not to the levels in the sixties.

 

The scottish salmon rivers have started to see higher catch returns, following the buy outs of the estuary nets and drift netting stations in the north sea. I wonder why?

 

The Kola Peninsular salmon rivers, that were opened to RA after the collapse of the Berlin Wall in 1989, give on average 200 pus salmon a week to a party of Anglers, and still do, whilst between 1986 and 2000, when the remaining nets were bought off in Scotland, the average catch on even the top beats was not more than 10 salmon per week. I wonder why?

 

The answer. During the cold war 1948-1989, trawling around the Kola Peninsular was banned as it was the main north sea open port for the Russian Navy.

 

Just because I do not go out in a boat and shoot nets each day does not make me a congenital idiot, who has no right to say what is plain for all to see. One does not need to be a piscatorial scientist to see what is plain as daylight.

 

THE EMPOROR HAS NO CLOTHES.

 

Hiding your eyes and saying I can't see he doesn't have any and if I do I will have to admit the fact that he is not wearing any, is not going to give him any.

 

I am not dealing in perception, I am dealing in reality. You sadly are dealing in "not in my backyard" attitudes that won't help anyone.

 

It is as much your future that I am campaigning to protect as my enjoyment and sport and livelyhoods of the entire RSA industry in this country who rely on the stocks just as much as the commercials do.

Henry

 

 

Henry,

 

You still have not answerd my question. if after all the pain for the commercials and the shops etc. The result was not as you are predicting because of some other reason. What would you have to say then. (nice try but hard luck, try again for the next ten years)?

Over to you.

 

Cheers barry

[wurzel]

Dear Wurzel,

 

Why is it that just about every recreational big game fishery, I would say all but cannot prove it at this stage, albeit I do believe all encourage the process, in the world, have changed their tactics from keeping catches to catch and return.

 

Answer to preserve stocks. In the late 60s and early 70s hundreds of blue sharks were landed each week in Cornwall by RSA, as were hundreds of thousands of tonnes of mackerel, the mackerel by trawlers and RSA. I remember in 1968 filling five dustbins with mackerel for use as rubbydubby in about 2 hours with feathers, between 5 of us. That week (6 days) as well, that boat landed 40 rod and line caught blues, two makos, the largest being 390lbs, and 12 porbeagles. I was working then as crew on a charter boat.

 

BY the 80s there were no mackerel to be had, maybe 2 sharks a day being caught by RSA. A policy was introduced to only catch and return.

 

Stocks have and are continuing to recover. Albeit not to the levels in the sixties.

 

The scottish salmon rivers have started to see higher catch returns, following the buy outs of the estuary nets and drift netting stations in the north sea. I wonder why?

 

The Kola Peninsular salmon rivers, that were opened to RA after the collapse of the Berlin Wall in 1989, give on average 200 pus salmon a week to a party of Anglers, and still do, whilst between 1986 and 2000, when the remaining nets were bought off in Scotland, the average catch on even the top beats was not more than 10 salmon per week. I wonder why?

 

The answer. During the cold war 1948-1989, trawling around the Kola Peninsular was banned as it was the main north sea open port for the Russian Navy.

 

Just because I do not go out in a boat and shoot nets each day does not make me a congenital idiot, who has no right to say what is plain for all to see. One does not need to be a piscatorial scientist to see what is plain as daylight.

 

THE EMPOROR HAS NO CLOTHES.

 

Hiding your eyes and saying I can't see he doesn't have any and if I do I will have to admit the fact that he is not wearing any, is not going to give him any.

 

I am not dealing in perception, I am dealing in reality. You sadly are dealing in "not in my backyard" attitudes that won't help anyone.

 

It is as much your future that I am campaigning to protect as my enjoyment and sport and livelyhoods of the entire RSA industry in this country who rely on the stocks just as much as the commercials do.

Henry

 

 

Hello Trubshaw

 

Cod ain't sharks or salmon, although a scientist involved in trying to restock the Thames with salmon gave up because I quote" If present climate conditions persist salmon will be extinct in the rivers of southern UK " so a little similar there perhaps.

 

Quote

livelihoods of the entire RSA industry in this country who rely on the stocks just as much as the commercials do.

 

 

I wonder about this, Bob Cox said something similar the other day when I met him. he was on about how there were, I think he said 20 charter boats working from Bradwell 20 years a go now there are only 1, I know it's much the same story all along the south east coast.

But there are more tackle shops, there are 6 here in my home town now, where as 30 years ago there were only3, most of the time when I was a lad there was only 2.

 

I think the industry relies more on carp puddles.

 

Whats some geezer with no cloths on got to do with any thing?

 

You are dealing in your perception of the commercial stocks of UK waters, against your limited experience of angling.

[Guest challenge]

That's what I feared, a commercial perception about things, and look where that brought us

It's a pitty but is seems anglers cannot count on all from the charter boat sector, not until more fish stocks are depleted and anglers don't bother charter for catching mini fish I guess.

That’s correct fishingsfine, a commercial fisherman’s perception of things that has allowed him to build one of the most successful recreational sea angling businesses in the country.

Built on experience a life time of knowledge and having the ability of listening to his customs.

[Trubshaw]

Henry,

 

You still have not answerd my question. if after all the pain for the commercials and the shops etc. The result was not as you are predicting because of some other reason. What would you have to say then. (nice try but hard luck, try again for the next ten years)?

Over to you.

 

Cheers barry

 

I refer to the statements I made in this post. Proof is in the pudding. Please see the statements written in the post. Look up the evidence for your-self.

[barry luxton]

I refer to the statements I made in this post. Proof is in the pudding. Please see the statements written in the post. Look up the evidence for your-self.

 

 

No I want you to say it Henry, Just answer the one question then i will make up my own mind with regards to your petition, What would happen in ten years if the pain you propose now does not work. Thats All.

 

Cheers barry

[barry luxton]

That's what I feared, a commercial perception about things, and look where that brought us

It's a pitty but is seems anglers cannot count on all from the charter boat sector, not until more fish stocks are depleted and anglers don't bother charter for catching mini fish I guess.

 

 

Hi fishingsfine

 

I do not fully understand your last paragraph would you please expand on it?

 

cheers barry

[fishyrob]

Then why do it by jumping on to such an extreme bandwagon, even ICES are not sure it would work for cod.

 

Why not petition for bigger MLS or to implement sustainable fishing methods eliminating discards, promote clean fisheries (no by catches like long lining, or large escape panels in trawls) make it advantages for fishermen to use these methods( more quota or days at sea )

These would be much more effective as it would cover all fishing areas and have the added bonus of backing by quite a lot of commercial fishermen.

 

Whoa, Wurzel. ICES are not sure about wether prohibiting areas of the North Sea from fishing, as you pointed out in an earlier post, would work, due to the mobility of the cod and the fishing pressure remaining constant but focused outside the NTZ. They arent saying that NTZ's dont work, they are saying that small NTZ's for mobile species probably wont work. Big ones encompassing the fishes mobile range would work, though.

 

I'm pretty sure every angler on here contributed to the BASS MLS survey. And I'm quite sure a lot of anglers also contributed to the Tope consultation. I certainly did, as Tope are a big favourite of mine and my clients in May and June (this year I have non-uk anglers coming over for the tope fishing, bringing their hard earned into the UK economy - yep, thats it Barry, Hungry Eastern europeans.... My charter skipper doesnt mind, as they tend to bring pounds sterling on the trip, rather than bartering with carp. And they help with the tagging programme)

 

Anyhow, back to the Knock. So, did I get my story wrong, or were you chartering or soley RSA back then? And if you are still fishing it, I guess it still has fish, right? Please dont think that I think I cant be wrong. It happens, and I am genuinely asking these questions to find out the situation. I actually booked a trip on a boat out of Wallasea, in about 1987 if my memory serves me correct, with the intention of getting to the Knock,but we didnt get there because of the weather. I also heard that in its heyday there were good tope to be had aound it. Any chance they are still there, as I guess not many charter skippers could AFFORD to risk a trip so far anymore with the increases in fuel prices.