An Alliance Between Anglers And Commercials?

[Leon Roskilly]

wurzel:

Leon do you realy take in all that waffle, and I could not find the bit that says the commercail fishermen will agree to the bass managment plan.

Have you met Spike Wurzel? LOL

 

It's the liners down in the South West who are supporting the proposals Wurzel.

 

They are already carcass-tagging their bass.

 

Tight Lines - leon

 

[ 14. October 2005, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: Leon Roskilly ]

[wurzel]

They would, I suppose I can't blame them for that.

[Guest johnfranz]

big_cod:

OMOTS you say there must be many small codlings as the discard rate has been so high,but you  know as well as me that when herring spawn it draws fish for many miles around like a magnet and it always seems small codling gather in vast numbers feeding on the spawn ,this practice of slaughter should be some how regulated in this day and age its crazy ,some skippers have told me they have steamed away from the herring mark because of the sheer slaughter they understand they are damaging there own liveley hood for the future but it seems DEFRA  are the only ones who dont know what happens when herring spawn,

as for blinders you they have been used for  years.

You say we (commercial fishermen) have been working blinders for years?

A very nasty accusation to make. Have just returned from the fish quay at Whitby and have been asking the accused about the said subject.

Complete denial and utter disbelief that someone could make such an accusation on an open forum.

Have just returned from another trip fishing the North Sea. We where boarded twice by fisheries protection. First time that they boarded us they stayed on board for ten hours.

Watching us shoot haul the gear, inspecting all relevant paperwork, inspecting our catch, looking through our net store to make sure that we have NO undersize netting onboard.

When you say blinders I can only suppose that you mean putting a smaller than legal bag around the cod end? The smallest netting that you are allowed to have on board your vessel depends on the size of the cod end you are working. If the authorities who boarded us would of found us working a so called blinder then I could of and would have been immediately arrested, the removal of our fishing license, removal of our catch, an appearance in court followed by a substantial fine, if not a term in one of our many prisons.

If you are suggesting that Whitby boats work blinders when fishing among the herring sporn? Then you obviously know less than I first suspected.

[JB]

Ian Burrett:

Michelle

I run three small charter boats and ten years ago insisted that all inshore fish we caught were put back. This is from my website

 

 

"We are, fortunately, in a situation that we don't need any individual party, so if you really need to take bags of fish home then look elsewhere."...

 

and guess what Michelle, We got busier.

 

There are many sport anglers now that enjoy the day out and enjoy putting fish back. Do the lads that are now going to Norway expect to return with sack loads of fish?

 

I can't remember the threads but there have been many on the subject of returning fish with blown swim bladders. It can be done.

 

By advertising the huge ammounts of fillets you are supposed to catch and having "specially made coolers" then Wurzel is right, You should be classed as commercial as many a small trawler would be happy with £3000 of fish for a days work.

 

 

Is this figure wholesale or retail price

Ian,

Little bit more time to reply…

 

Catch and release for all fish is a very valid point you’ve brought up, and I can see how it has worked well in your area, with your type of chartering. I have taken a look at your website, and your photographs. Although you obviously catch many species, judging by the predominant number of anglers proudly holding tope, these must be your main target species. Tope is more of a sporting fish, and you get the pleasure of the fight. The skill of the angler plays a great part in the successful landing of the fish on comparatively light tackle. Tope, until recently, was considered not to be a food fish. Consequently, when an angler books with you, he would naturally expect to catch and release. If you can’t eat what you catch, why kill it?

 

On the other hand, our most predominant and, consequently, most targeted species is cod. When an angler books with us, he expects to be able to take his catch home to eat. Some even expect to fill their freezers. (It’s the old “hunter, provider” thing.) Incidentally, when booking with us, many anglers who fish predominately in the South ask if they will be allowed to keep their fish. When discussing this matter, they tell us that some of the skippers they fish with retain the majority of their anglers’ catch and (we assume!) land it on the fish market.

 

As a charter skipper, it is in my best interest to look after my customers, give them good service, help them catch the maximum of fish they are capable of catching (bearing in mind not all anglers are highly efficient fishing units), and return them to the shore with the best possible quantity and quality of catch.

 

Don’t get me wrong. I would love to catch and release. It would make my job so much easier! We could go off every trip and catch the same fish off the same wrecks. And repeat the process on our next trip. It would also save me thousands of pounds in fuel bills, as we would not have to travel hundreds of miles in the continual search for good fishing. However, with the type of anglers we cater for at the moment, if I made the same statement as you do on your website, I think it would be financial suicide. By the way, a small minority of our anglers do practise ‘catch and release’ when they have caught enough cod to satisfy their needs – or when transporting fish home is difficult (e.g. when anglers fly long distances to us).

 

The only controls I have put on fishing thus far is when we are getting too much fish over a short period of time on a hot day, and the quality of fish may suffer. We either lay until all fish on deck is filleted and in the chiller, or use the time more usefully by moving to another wreck. I will not condone any waste of this precious resource.

 

You asked: Do the lads that are now going to Norway expect to return with sack loads of fish?

 

I have talked with many of our customers who have been cod fishing in Norway, and most complain that the main problem with going there to fish is that you cannot bring your fish back. For most anglers, part of the deal is that their Norwegian skippers get everything they catch to sell – there is no ‘catch and release’ system on these boats. Others, who have obviously been to different places in Norway, say there are special filleting rooms provided. (Apparently the Germans monopolise these rooms. They must put their towels on the filleting tables the night before they go fishing.) In these filleting rooms, fish can be filleted, packed and frozen ready to take home. However, this is a very expensive option, due to “excess baggage” costs.

 

Because of the quantities of cod caught on my boat, you say that we should be classed as “commercial”. That’s an odd comment. Do you consider the problem is simply with the job that I do, or is it that I do my job successfully?

 

The only short answer I can offer is this: as long as it is legal to eat fish, I believe that it is better and more fun for an angler to go out and catch his own fresh cod, rather than buy an inferior product from a supermarket.

 

You asked about the value of the fish caught: Is this figure wholesale or retail price . Binatone was the poster who estimated the value of one catch, based on his experience as a commercial fisherman. I think he gave a ‘first sale’ valuation of the same quantity of whole gutted fish on the fish market. I would guess it was a pretty accurate assessment. As to retail value, I have absolutely no idea - I don’t buy cod in a processed form, other than very occasionally from fish and chip shops. If I were unable to catch my own or get a fry from a friend, I would do without.

 

Hope I’ve covered everything…

JOHN BRENNAN

[Guest jay_con]

binatone:

   

binatone:

OMOTS you say there must be many small codlings as the discard rate has been so high,but you  know as well as me that when herring spawn it draws fish for many miles around like a magnet and it always seems small codling gather in vast numbers feeding on the spawn ,this practice of slaughter should be some how regulated in this day and age its crazy ,some skippers have told me they have steamed away from the herring mark because of the sheer slaughter they understand they are damaging there own liveley hood for the future but it seems DEFRA  are the only ones who dont know what happens when herring spawn,

as for blinders you they have been used for  years.

You say we (commercial fishermen) have been working blinders for years?

A very nasty accusation to make. Have just returned from the fish quay at Whitby and have been asking the accused about the said subject.

Complete denial and utter disbelief that someone could make such an accusation on an open forum.

Have just returned from another trip fishing the North Sea. We where boarded twice by fisheries protection. First time that they boarded us they stayed on board for ten hours.

Watching us shoot haul the gear, inspecting all relevant paperwork, inspecting our catch, looking through our net store to make sure that we have NO undersize netting onboard.

When you say blinders I can only suppose that you mean putting a smaller than legal bag around the cod end? The smallest netting that you are allowed to have on board your vessel depends on the size of the cod end you are working. If the authorities who boarded us would of found us working a so called blinder then I could of and would have been immediately arrested, the removal of our fishing license, removal of our catch, an appearance in court followed by a substantial fine, if not a term in one of our many prisons.

If you are suggesting that Whitby boats work blinders when fishing among the herring sporn? Then you obviously know less than I first suspected.

Mmmmm. What was that famous quote about protesting too much.

 

You have no worries anyway Binatone. I uderstand there are a thousand times more small codling in the sea than anytime over the past ten years. Good times must be just around the corner m8. As you say, no Whitby boats would use a blinder, they wouldnt need too. The sea is so full of codlings you could walk on thier backs.

 

Nice to know the fisheries men are doing thier job. LONG MAY IT CONTINUE Im glad Im getting what I pay my taxes for. Im just a bit curious of your thoughts on the fisheries men Binatone, do you see them as a hinderence or are you glad to have them there with you making sure things are all above board. After all they are protecting your future as well as everyone elses.

 

[ 18. October 2005, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: @AUTUMN@ ]

[stavey]

: Don’t get me wrong. I would love to catch and release. It would make my job so much easier! We could go off every trip and catch the same fish off the same wrecks. And repeat the process on our next trip. It would also save me thousands of pounds in fuel bills, as we would not have to travel hundreds of miles in the continual search for good fishing. However, with the type of anglers we cater for at the moment, if I made the same statement as you do on your website, I think it would be financial suicide. By the way, a small minority of our anglers do practise ‘catch and release’ when they have caught enough cod to satisfy their needs – or when transporting fish home is difficult (e.g. when anglers fly long distances to us).

 

Hi john, it must be said i suppose you run quite a unique buiness realy sort of in between the two of normal sea angling chartering and commercial fishing because of the amount of anglers and the lenghth of those trips and by the amount of fish these anglers catch and take home? and on the commercial side that i presume you do not have or use a commercial licence and there for do not have to opperate under their laws? ie, quota/days at see/etc.

 

There may come a time though were you may have to choose when changes of the present rules come about? you say that cod for you is what its all about understandably so, but i predict in the not so distant future bag limmits on cod will be implemented, how are you going to build up existing as well as new costumers when all you are atracting is anglers that place the most important aspect of their sea angling hobby is on their stomachs, will these same anglers book you as much if they are restricted to only two fish a trip?

 

You may also have to look beyond cod in the future and consider other species? but wait a minute why not prove me and anyone else wrong that cod can be a sporting species? fished correctly i would think they are, and they deserve a bag limit, and the promotion of protection for this very reason and not because the local chippy is running out.

 

If we expect the commercial fisherman to swallow no go areas and shortened quota's and bigger mesh sizes etc, on the arguement that the cod's value is only as a food item, then you will have to exept those same measures and make sacrifices as well in the amount you will be able to take anyway, so why not start now and build up the custome that want to practice catch and release or bag limmits, youve got all the mod cons to do this and maybe you would not have to steam so far, you see john attitudes must change as regards sea angling and its time to think with our heads and not are stomachs..........

[Ian Burrett]

Hi John and Michelle

 

Our fishing is tope and Pollack mixed on a 50-50 basis.although an average trip will produce 12-15 species.

 

When i first insisted all Pollack go back I was told i was committing financial suicide, even by one of my skippers, but the reverse has been the case.

 

One of my great pleasures is listening to a lad who i considered our worst great white fillet hunter telling his mates about the pleasures of releasing fish.

 

Times are changing John In my opinion A charter boat landing £3000 of fish can hardly be called a recreational boat. and should have no complaints if they are classed alongside the commercials in the event of a cod ban.

 

Anglers can be educated to accept less take home fish.

 

cheers Ian

[Guest johnfranz]

Autumn.

I have no problem at all with fisheries protection. They like you say, have a job to do. As long as they do that properly and know what they have to do, then that is fine with me.

What I am against is people making accusations without any substance whatsoever.

I take it you read the Whitby gazette this morning then, good reading surely to all concerned.

You had better get your rod out and go and try your best? Before Andy straw has a wonder out and cleans them all up.

[Guest jay_con]

Hi Binatone,

Certainly does sound like good news. The sad thing is I remember the last good year class of 96-97, it was virtually wiped out before the fish reached 2 pound in weight. If it had of spawned things would have been fantastic. Thats History now, lets hope the lesson has been learnt.

The year class mentioned is 0-12 months old. Not sure how big these fish are if they exist at all (im always sceptical untill ive seen it in writing myself), but they certainly arent a size you can legally catch m8.

 

Perhaps Leon can tell us how big a cod is at 0-12 months?

 

Glad you dont mind the fisheries guys being there. I see it rather like cctv. You have no worries if your on the right side of the law. I hope they stay in this area all the time and continue with thier recent good work. Your right about them needing to know the job though. They look stupid when they dont even know the rules themselves at times.

[wurzel]

@atumm@ if they were wiped out were have these new lot of codling come from?