Catch-Release Angling Injures Fish

[Sharkbyte]

Hi Corydoras

 

Tell me, do you accept Sascha's (seeing as your on first name terms), often rather non committal, reported findings, as gospel?

 

Seeing as, to the best of my knowledge, the raw data, methodology and completed paper are not available for scrutiny, why should anglers not challenge these wishy washy soundbites? Do many thousands of hours worth of actual angling knowledge and experience play second fiddle to a, presumably, majority lab / office based Phd or two?

 

Danylchuk, a researcher at the Cape Eleuthera Institute in the Bahamas, added that even if catches survive, they might be less able to reproduce or more susceptible to disease.

 

16.874% more, may have more credibility but no......might be.

 

Fish that experienced a loss of equilibrium, or an inability to swim away normally, were six times more likely to die than others.

 

Looking through the tin pot summary of the study, I see a Bonefish belly up in some kind of cradle having an instrument of some description inserted into it's backside. To the best of my knowledge not even the most perverse of Flats fishermen, delve into the rectum of their catch. I know the day when I succumb to my first prostate examination, I'm going to exhibit a similar loss of equilibrium. Having just been 'violated', no doubt, I'll statistically be more likely targeted by predatory Chavs when released from the GP's surgery.

 

During the study, predators, including lemon sharks and great barracuda, quickly nabbed the bonefish that experienced the equilibrium problem. The scientists think traumatized fish may even release stress chemicals, which function like a dinner bell to watchful predators.

 

May even release chemicals. How about release 0.0057mg of norepinephrine from the operculum area, or some other scientific spiel.

 

"When you do take the fish out of the water, try holding your breath. When you need to breathe, the fish probably does too and it's time to put it back in the water."

 

I've seen more scientific suggestions than that on Mythbusters!

 

 

As I say, until they publish the paper, I'll treat what I've read with the contempt it deserves regardless of 'belief systems' or any of that old cobblers.

 

 

 

 

PS. I've no real desire to enter the domain of the resident AN debating society, as more often than not, those pulling the strings never dare to stick their necks out far enough to be soundly dispatched.

[JRT]

How long do you KNOW they lived for after they sped off?

 

I catch & release hundreds of bass a year, as do friends. If the fish we released died then our marks would be devoid of fish. Also the bass tagging programme that has been running for years proves fish survive being caught. In fact an 9lb bass has been caught and release 4 times over 4 years at the same mark at roughly the same time of year in sourthern ireland by bass members, identified by the tag!

 

Heavily fished bonefish flats and tarpon flats would also become devoid of fish if they died. A 100lb+ tarpon floating around would be pretty obvious in these busy areas even if for a short time before being eaten by sharks.

 

So in this report how do you observe a bonefish 'hours after release'?

 

FlyGuy

Edited August 17, 2007 by JRT

[ColinW]

...don't rubbish therir work because you don't understand the science or because the science might contradict your own belief system.

 

You have no idea what I do or don't understand, let alone what I might believe. Just because I don't have the pretentious, some might even say sesquipedalian, tendencies of certain posters, don't assume that I am a "thicko"

[corydoras]

Hi Corydoras

 

Tell me, do you accept Sascha's (seeing as your on first name terms), often rather non committal, reported findings, as gospel?

 

Seeing as, to the best of my knowledge, the raw data, methodology and completed paper are not available for scrutiny, why should anglers not challenge these wishy washy soundbites? Do many thousands of hours worth of actual angling knowledge and experience play second fiddle to a, presumably, majority lab / office based Phd or two?

 

16.874% more, may have more credibility but no......might be.

 

Looking through the tin pot summary of the study, I see a Bonefish belly up in some kind of cradle having an instrument of some description inserted into it's backside. To the best of my knowledge not even the most perverse of Flats fishermen, delve into the rectum of their catch. I know the day when I succumb to my first prostate examination, I'm going to exhibit a similar loss of equilibrium. Having just been 'violated', no doubt, I'll statistically be more likely targeted by predatory Chavs when released from the GP's surgery.

 

May even release chemicals. How about release 0.0057mg of norepinephrine from the operculum area, or some other scientific spiel.

 

I've seen more scientific suggestions than that on Mythbusters!

As I say, until they publish the paper, I'll treat what I've read with the contempt it deserves regardless of 'belief systems' or any of that old cobblers.

PS. I've no real desire to enter the domain of the resident AN debating society, as more often than not, those pulling the strings never dare to stick their necks out far enough to be soundly dispatched.

Hi Sharkbyte

Do I accept the findings as gospel? Hell no. I don't accept anything as gospel until I have seen the research, which as you rightly say has not yet been published, and there is no reason at all why one should not challenge any findings. What I do object to is the rubbishing of science by some folks when they either don't understand the science or they just don't like the message because it conflicts with what they believe. Do many thousands of hours worth of actual angling knowledge and experience play second fiddle to a, presumably, majority lab / office based Phd or two? No, but neither is the converse true.

 

'Might' or 'may' is a word that scientists use when they are not 100% sure, just like the rest of us.

 

I THINK that the cradle that the bonefish is in is used to insert a tiny GPS tag, but I may be wrong. You could always drop her an email and ask her.

 

[EDIT] Not a GPS tag but an acoustic telemetry device. You can read about them here.[/EDIT]

 

PS Don't worry to much about your first prostate exam, it's a wee bit ikky, but it does not hurt. Its when they want to shove an endoscope up your jap's eye that it gets to be 'uncomfortable'

Edited August 17, 2007 by corydoras

[corydoras]

I catch & release hundreds of bass a year, as do friends. If the fish we released died then our marks would be devoid of fish. Also the bass tagging programme that has been running for years proves fish survive being caught. In fact an 9lb bass has been caught and release 4 times over 4 years at the same mark at roughly the same time of year in sourthern ireland by bass members, identified by the tag!

 

Heavily fished bonefish flats and tarpon flats would also become devoid of fish if they died. A 100lb+ tarpon floating around would be pretty obvious in these busy areas even if for a short time before being eaten by sharks.

 

So in this report how do you observe a bonefish 'hours after release'?

 

FlyGuy

I too catch and release lots of bass, especially baby ones as they oftren take my bread when I am fishing for Mullet (the UK's answer to the bonefish) and I have no doubt that the majority survived. But arguing that because species A copes well with catch and release, therefore species B must also cope well with catch and release is a non sequitur one simply does not follow from the other. I could equally argue that mackerel do not cope well with catch and release, therefore no other species can cope with catch and release, and that would just not be true.

 

No one is arguing about tarpon.

 

So in this report how do you observe a bonefish 'hours after release'? Don't take this the wrong way, but this is called 'arguing from personal incredulity'. Just because you don't know or can't imagine how something can be possible does not mean that it is indeed impossible. This is done by acoustic telemetry.

Edited August 17, 2007 by corydoras

[H.A.]

In the AT process, bonefish are fitted with a coded transmitter tag.

The surgically implanted transmitter “tags” are about 1.5 inches long and 0.5” in diameter that are surgically implanted into the bonefish in the field (far right) or tagged at the University of Miami hatchery and released at a later date. The transmitters use a digital method to emit acoustic pulses on a specified frequency, allowing unique identification of each tag (i.e., individual bonefish) by the receivers.

 

I guess there's no chance of the 'bones' suffering post operative stress/trauma as a result of having such a device fitted, eh?

 

Neither can I see a lot of point into these particular studies.

 

At least they'll be a few more pseudo-PhDs about, though.

 

Personally, I'd rather see bonefish provide a bit of enjoyment for an angler, be carefully unhooked and released straight away without leaving the water.

 

[corydoras]

I guess there's no chance of the 'bones' suffering post operative stress/trauma as a result of having such a device fitted, eh?

 

Neither can I see a lot of point into these particular studies.

At least they'll be a few more pseudo-PhDs about, though.

Again this is arguing from personal incredulity. Just because you cannot see or imagine the point does not make something pointless.

 

Personally, I'd rather see bonefish provide a bit of enjoyment for an angler, be carefully unhooked and released straight away without leaving the water.

Broadhurst and Danylchuk also recommend that catch and release fishermen should minimize air exposure, use landing nets without knotted mesh, use barbless hooks to help expedite hook removal, and avoid sunscreen and bug repellent on hands, since Danylchuk said, "these can affect the slime coating on fish."

[H.A.]

Again this is arguing from personal incredulity.

Just because you cannot see or imagine the point does not make something pointless.

 

Well, at least that's me put in me place.

'Shut yer mowf, Ada' by any other turn of phrase.

 

Ada

MSc CertEd AdvDip Ed and bar

Edited August 20, 2007 by H.A.

[corydoras]

Well, at least that's me put in me place.

'Shut yer mowf, Ada' by any other turn of phrase.

 

Ada

MSc CertEd AdvDip Ed and bar

Far from it. Just back up you argument with evidence. Quoting your titles at me is called arguing from authority, that too is a logical fallacy.

[H.A.]

Far from it. Just back up you argument with evidence. Quoting your titles at me is called arguing from authority, that too is a logical fallacy.

 

 

Whatever you say, Sir.