RSA Representation

[Jaffa]

Hi HA,

[Regarding sand eels, stocks remain at about half that required for sustaining the N Sea cod fishery.

The RSPB, also, has been campaigning for years to stop 'industrial fishing' (mainly by the Danes) for sand eels because of the devastating impact on puffins, guillemots, kittewakes and terns.

 

DENMARK has vowed to stop "industrial" fishing for sand eels and sprats in parts of the North Sea where the practice could damage local ecosystems. The promise emerged after a two-day meeting in Bergen, Norway. The meeting also called for fish stocks to be managed according to ecological principles. The meeting, attended by environment and fisheries ministers, also drew up a "wish list" of proposals to make fishing in the North Sea sustainable. (So much for politics eh, Worz!)

 

The Danish move is likely to end sand-eel fishing from the Wee Bankie off the Firth of Forth in Scotland. Conservation agencies and the British government's Joint Nature Conservation Committee have campaigned for the ban because the fishing removes food for seals, seabirds and local fish caught for human consumption.

The RSPB have indeed been campaigning for decades rather that years on this one but have at last caught up and seem to accept that its environmental conditions rather than fishing that is the big factor with sandeel. Despite this they can't quite bring themselves to admit they were wrong before ; therefore on every press release where they explain it might just be the environment wot did it, we get the compulsary attack on the commercials slipped in . You should put some dates on all that wee bankie stuff and allow your reader to then judge what its all about?

 

Some evidence; in fact ANY evidence that the industrial sandeel fishers have caused the reduction in stocks we see would be nice. In several years on these forums I have yet to see anyone come up with anything whatsoever.

 

Show me any evidence whatsoever that fishing caused the current sandeel crash....

 

Before you do that, it might be helpful to point out just when the Wee Bankie fishery was closed and on what grounds .Be kinda worrying if RSA reps were spinning things ............. as if ...

 

Surely an easy one for you there HA ; just point me to the link that shows any evidence whatsoever that the commercials did in the sandeel

 

While your at it could you also link me too anything serious showing a single species of fish that the commercials have made extinct.

 

Should be easy given all we hear day in day out from those that "know".

Edited September 22, 2007 by Jaffa

[H.A.]

OK, mate, North Sea, Irish Sea and Channel COD stocks in grave danger?

Mixed year classes of cod have all but disappeared inshore (which is where RSAs would like to see them).

Now it's 'boom and bust' as 35cm codling are massacred as soon as a good breeding year emerges. A female cod lays 30 - 50 million eggs, so don't tell me there must be healthy biomass of cod nearby, 'cos there ain't!

 

HERRINGS nearly wiped out (certainly economically wiped out) by overfishing culminating in the complete closure of the fishery in the N Sea in the 70s.

Not only that, but the entire demand for a market for this nutritious fish completely destroyed by the greedy fleet itself!

 

Amazingly the Thames herring fleet, which is re-emerging, talks sensibly (NOW!) of 'SUSTAINABILITY' ... who would have believed that after the carnage of the 60s and 70s???

Edited September 23, 2007 by Newt

[barry luxton]

Most anglers on the south coast have said they will not accept bag limits or licenses.

 

Again, how do you know that to be true, I agree with Leon's comments that if it was found to be required to protect any fish stock i would agree to bag limits, however there would have be a lot more effort from defra in other methods of protecting the stock that would have a far greater effect than bag limits for the rsa. They would also have to demonstrate that they are indeed protecting, enhansing the fish stock for all, as a stand alone legislation it would have no effect at all and cost someone an enormous amount of money.

 

Licences, i would agree to paying for one only if the monies were used to plough back into the sport or the fishery and pro-rata to what commercial pay the goverment for a licence. Don't forget the fresh water licence scheme is subsidised by the ratepayer to the tune of 30% anually. Should the taxpayer subsidise sea water licences as well?

[barry luxton]

Hi Ronessex long time no hear. It was when some bloke was trying to ban worm digging that you was last on here. I heard that the mfa had took his computers away, any news.

Edited September 23, 2007 by barry luxton

[Leon Roskilly]

I have too say I generaly agree with what you have said.... however I also need to say that you need to concentrate on the UK palagic fleet & the French Pair Fleet that does the damage to the prime Bass stocks in the western English Channel. 15 tons a month or 5 ton a week is to much. Over 12 tons caught I beleave in the Channel Islands was landed at Brixham this week. No doubt the crushed Bass went for fishmeal again.

 

Most anglers on the south coast have said they will not accept bag limits or licenses. As you have said there needs to be a bit of acceptance by each sector but beleave me the paragraph above is where you need to concentrate your effort.

 

Although for a long time there have been local spawning populations of bass close to our shores, it's true that until recently most of the population headed down to the South West approaches to spawn, where they were discovered by the pair trawlers who had developed the method for bream, but once they were exhausted turned to bass.

 

Intitial landings of spawning bass by the French pairs were so high, that though a non-quota species, France felt compelled to put a landing limit of 5 tonne per boat per week, largely to protect the market and incomes of the inshore fleet as the price of bass collapsed with many boats making large landings of bass.

 

Later, on conservation grounds, the UK also imposed the 5 tonne limit (but also allowed a 15tonne per month alternative).

 

But by then the fishery wasn't producing the tonnages it once was, and as far as I know the landing limit has had little effect as the pairs are no longer catching the quantities of fish they once were.

 

At the same time, it seems that the UK inshor bass populations are no longer mainly all heading down to the South-west.

 

That may be bcause warming is producing the sea temperatures they need closer to home, or it may be because locally spawning fish now have a higher survival rate than the travellers, because of the pair-trawling, and so have become the dominant stock.

 

Whatever the reason, CEFAS now say that only around 10% of the bass tagged in UK waters, and subsequently caught, are captured by non-UK boats.

 

That is very good news because it means that 90% of conservation improvements will benefit both the commercial and recreational fisheries of the UK, with little 'leakage' to the boats of other nations (principally the French pair-trawlers).

 

So, although the pair-trawling was once the greatest issue for UK bass stocks, it appears that is no longer the case.

 

However, anglers from BASS have beem pressing the case for a more level EU playing field and greater conservation measures for bass, such as closure of the fishery upon spawning congregations and a higher mls for bass in all European waters.

 

They have visited the EU fisheries dept and have talked to DEFRA about also pushing at the EU level.

 

They did put forward what they were doing in Fishing News some time ago, with an invitation to the catching sector to support their efforts which was ignored, so they soldier on alone down this path (although whenever conservation measures are mooted for UK legislation on bass, there are howls from the catching sector that although such conservation measures might be acceptable if applied uniformly on all EU vessels, they cannot allow them to be applied on UK vessels alone!)

 

Perhaps someone can tell me what efforts are being made by the UK catching sector to deal with the problem of the French pair fleet?

 

You'll be happy to know that UK bass anglers are doing their bit, although as explained above, it seems that this fishery is no longer the problem it once was for the UK Recreational inshore bass fishery.

[Ronessex]

[admin note: all content was removed since none was angling/conservation related.

Newt]

[Ronessex]

Hi Ronessex long time no hear. It was when some bloke was trying to ban worm digging that you was last on here. I heard that the mfa had took his computers away, any news.

Hi Barry,I dont come on and post much,just have a read and Im off.the guy had his computors returned and nothing toward was found as far as Im aware....Seems it could of been someone made a phone call just to stir it up a bit.

[wurzel]

OK, mate, North Sea, Irish Sea and Channel COD stocks in grave danger?

Mixed year classes of cod have all but disappeared inshore (which is where RSAs would like to see them).

Now it's 'boom and bust' as 35cm codling are massacred as soon as a good breeding year emerges. A female cod lays 30 - 50 million eggs, so don't tell me there must be healthy biomass of cod nearby, 'cos there ain't!

 

HERRINGS nearly wiped out (certainly economically wiped out) by overfishing culminating in the complete closure of the fishery in the N Sea in the 70s.

Not only that, but the entire demand for a market for this nutritious fish completely destroyed by the greedy fleet itself!

 

Amazingly the Thames herring fleet, which is re-emerging, talks sensibly (NOW!) of 'SUSTAINABILITY' ... who would have believed that after the carnage of the 60s and 70s???

 

More RSA propaganda

 

North Sea, Irish Sea and Channel cod stocks are not in danger, never were, never will be.

Mixed year classes of cod have not disappeared, not according to what I see in my and other catches including anglers catches(ask Big cod) I go on what I see I don't have to rely on out of date science to make a case.

Who is massacring all these 35cm codling? can you please point out where this massive slaughter will or is taking place.

As you say a female cod can lay up to 50 million eggs, the UK quota amounts to one cods spawning potential so just how many cod are needed? I don't care how many they say there are (SSB) it's not possible to know or even come to a close guess.

 

The cooler sea temperatures of the 60 and 70's done the herring not over fishing. The demand was not destroyed, the ban just gave it to those that weren't banned. Once the sea temperature began to rise again the herring bounced back to above previous levels despite being fished for by some of the largest and most modern super trawlers, now due to a slight cooling of the N Sea they have noticed a drop in herring recruitment so perhaps the cycle is repeating its self, less herring, haddock, bass and soles but more cod, only time will tell and fishing effort won't make much difference.

[H.A.]

The cooler sea temperatures of the 60 and 70's done the herring not over fishing. The demand was not destroyed, the ban just gave it to those that weren't banned.

Once the sea temperature began to rise again the herring bounced back to above previous levels despite being fished for by some of the largest and most modern super trawlers, now due to a slight cooling of the N Sea they have noticed a drop in herring recruitment so perhaps the cycle is repeating its self

 

Oh boy, Wurzel!

 

Atlantic (and N Sea) Herring (Clupea harengus harengus) - sea temperature distribution range 4 - 18 deg C. (Temperate to cold). Classed as cold water species.

 

Distribution - North Atlantic: northern Bay of Biscay northward to Iceland and southern Greenland, eastward to Spitsbergen and Novaya Zemlya, including the Baltic and North Sea; southwestern Greenland and Labrador southward to South Carolina.

 

Now, I'm sorry mee old boy, but herring are unlikely to wait for nice warm/temperate conditions in which to 'bounce back'.

 

... now due to a slight cooling of the N Sea they have noticed a drop in herring recruitment ...

 

Where do you make it up from????

 

[wurzel]

Oh boy, Wurzel!

 

Atlantic (and N Sea) Herring (Clupea harengus harengus) - sea temperature distribution range 4 - 18 deg C. (Temperate to cold). Classed as cold water species.

 

Distribution - North Atlantic: northern Bay of Biscay northward to Iceland and southern Greenland, eastward to Spitsbergen and Novaya Zemlya, including the Baltic and North Sea; southwestern Greenland and Labrador southward to South Carolina.

 

Now, I'm sorry mee old boy, but herring are unlikely to wait for nice warm/temperate conditions in which to 'bounce back'.

Where do you make it up from????

 

 

I take it you don't believe me then?