Budgie, young Waller, and any other piking types...

[Wordbender]

Gentlemen,

 

I am required to do a piece on pike fishing for an angling publication which will include a comparison between a drop-off indicator and a standard 'swing-arm' indicator, with both to be used in conjunction with Delkim buzzers switched to the most sensitive settings conditions will allow.

 

The 10-acre venue is completely private and never fished for pike, so the details of the stock remain a mystery although there are many jacks and mid-doubles in there - as discovered during a lure-fishing 'recce' trip using rubber shads to considerable effect. The head of bream, perch and eels is on the healthy side of 'staggering' - two of us had over 400lbs of bream in 36 hours - so who knows what size of pike could be in there?

 

Anyway, I'll be deadbaiting, using identical popped-up baits on single, semi-barbed, size 8 trebles, and hitting all runs on first positive indication. My rods are 12-foot, through-action, 2.75 test, with Shimano 10000s and 15lb line to 35lb wire traces.

 

So, can the learned esoxians of this fine forum advise me on their thoughts and experiences regarding the practical benefits of the two indicator systems, please? I normally use drop-offs and open bail arms, but the Delkims are capable of such sensitivity that I'm by no means certain they wouldn't be just as efficient with standard indicators.

 

All considered input gratefully received, chaps.

 

Thanks.

[arkay]

Delkims are great for giving early indications that don't show on (normal)* drop offs. a mate and myself were fishing a stretch of river two or three seasons ago and both getting the odd take. Bites were seen on the rod tip before any indication was given on the drop offs on my rods. I was using fox sx digitals as front alarms with rear drop offs. My mate was using Delks' with rear drop offs and the Delks picked up his bites as they were shown as knocks on the rod tips. I always thought Delks' were over hyped as alarms but this incident changed my mind. And still, I haven't got them myself

 

I'd also up my hook size to at least a 6.

 

*There's a bloke that posts on the P&P forums that makes some drop offs that are supposed to be great at showing the slightest movement of the bait.

 

http://www.42inch.net/tackle/bite_alarms/bite1.htm

 

Edited and link added!

Edited October 22, 2008 by arkay

[Peter Waller]

Hallelujah, the old bug#er is still alive!! Welcome back to the land of the reasonable and sane!

 

Sorry, old fella, can't advise on this one. I prefer catching so I would go armed with a boat, a few floats and deads, and a handful of jelly baits fished sink and draw. I leave these electro toys for the gadget dependent carpies.

[Dick Dastardly]

Dont worry Pete the duty Trapper is here!

 

My choice is for electronic "Backbiter" type combined indicater/alarms. That said though Tel it really depends on how you fish.For example a highly sensitive Delkim type alarm would drive me mad with all the false bleeps it would give when Im livebaiting using sunken float pat rigs.Its extra sensitivity wouldnt give me any advantage either.Some will imediately say but the more sensitive the less chance of deephooking.I disagree! I dont need to know that my bait is working hard or has been spooked by a series of bleeps and blips! even with my "illegal" multi rod spreading tactics I can still clearly see any signs of this by the line lifting and falling! People being people will also start to ignore these false blips and as such this can lead to deep hooking!

 

With deads then this isnt a problem but I see no advantage of using a front mounted alarm with a rear mounted indicater over my combined Backbiter set up.Both relyon having an ultra tight line so that the slightest movement is indicated.In fact my set up is better as with a front alarm system you can once again ignore a single bleep but with the backbiter you have to attend the rod and see whats happening to stop the dam thing shrieking!

 

But as I said personal prefference.Either set up can be just as safe/effective as long as used dilligently. Far more important for me though is the choice of indicater.It has to be able to clearly show both takes and drop backs.Drop backs being the most common of bites when using some methods in some situations ie patting a live bait close in to the marginal shelf or hard against cover.They need to be very visual just incase your audible alarm fails or you dont hear it (easy done in windy conditions with un modified production models) Kind of a belt and braces aproach. Also the fact that Im a great believer in using open bail arm tactics (the topic of pike/resistance etc is a topic for another thread) dictates that I need a rear mounted indicater rather than just a heavy bobbin/hanger or front mounted swinger.As my rear indicater needs to be heavy to show drop backs positivel it must also release instantly with minimal change of resistance on a run.

 

Ive tried most options/variations but like a lot of "old school" pikers have found the combined rear indicater/alarm set up to suit my piking the best.There are however (as with most things) both good and bad examples of this genre.

For me the switching mechanism (to activate on a run/drop back) must be mechanical such as a micro swith etc.Mercurey tilt switchs are a complete pain in the backside to set up and often very unreliable.The line clip is also important.Especially now that braid is generally the standard pike line you need to ensure that it doesnt jam in the jaws of say the old Gardner run clip type as if it does drop back wont be shown.Modified Gardner run clips or the more moder metal type are needed. The drop arm it sel I feel is best being rigid as opposed to a cord or electrical lead as is common in tilt switch designs. Allthough a good volume (with control) is needed it is much better to have a horn/buzzer with an alternating tone rather than a single tone.Single tones can easily disapear in wind noise.

 

Theres a load more but I think this gives my basic views on the most important things.

 

Oh as with most things I feel its best to justify my comments/conclusions by saying that they are based on not only 30 years plus serious piking but also many years of making/modifying my own and other peoples indication systems. I know nothing of the teory of the electronics or mechanical physics and base it entirely on practical experience, trial and error.

Edited October 23, 2008 by BUDGIE

[Wordbender]

I leave these electro toys for the gadget dependent carpies.

 

Great to see you've finally abandoned the electronic fish-finder, Pete! I knew you'd rather locate your own fish like we purist carper types, than rely on one of those 'electro toys' to do it for you. Marvellous stuff, mate.

 

Eh? What do you mean you haven't? But you said... Oh no...there goes another hero with feet of clay.

 

Meanwhile, back in the real world, thanks for your replies, chaps, and I hope a few more will be forthcoming before this thread degenerates into the traditional Wordbender/Waller queen war, with the hissy fits and the flouncing and all that.

 

Oh and Leon, if you fancy 'going public' with your circle hook doings, I'd like to talk to you about it, mate.

 

Onward!

[Neil G]

Hallelujah, the old bug#er is still alive!! Welcome back to the land of the reasonable and sane!

 

Sorry, old fella, can't advise on this one. I prefer catching so I would go armed with a boat, a few floats and deads, and a handful of jelly baits fished sink and draw. I leave these electro toys for the gadget dependent carpies.

 

+1

 

Second that, IMO the best indicator ever invented is the humble float....always use them when I can and even allows you to dispense with all the BS that is rod pods and banksticks

 

Could be talking from more of a river perspective though, when I do fish bigger waters with ledger setups I've always used a front indicator with a rear swingarm dropoff

[wayne baker]

Dont think you can beat using a front indicator aswell as a electronic backbiter. You get a good early warning of line movement before the backbiter is activated. With the added advantage of the open bail arm for low resistance. But dont neglect the good old float aswell

[Peter Waller]

Terry, have used the stuff in ages past, reasonably successfully but sat there relying on electronics to do my fishing really holds no appeal whatsoever.

[Wordbender]

Terry, have used the stuff in ages past, reasonably successfully but sat there relying on electronics to do my fishing really holds no appeal whatsoever.

 

But relying on them to find the fish in the first place does? Okaaaaay.....

 

Any road up, an alarm is a bite-indication device, as is a float. One is purely visual, the other visual and audible. I'm sure I could stare at a bobbin as others do a bobbin' float (see what I did there?) but I love to watch the water and see what's around me. Thus, when my attention wanders to a circling raptor, arrowing kingfisher, or whatever ol' Ma. Nature sends my way, I'm happier that my vigilant Delkims have their electronic eyes on things for me. This knowledge increases the pleasure of my fishing and I think it's safer for the pike to have double-coverage of bite-indication.

 

As good as they are, though, those alarms can't choose my venue, gear, rigs, bait and tactics, find fish-holding features for me, chart the depths of the venues I fish, cast my rods or play whatever I manage to hook, and they certainly don't offer me an electronic short-cut around perhaps the most essential skill of them all - finding fish. I'm told other anglers don't mind 'relying on electronics to do their fishing' but that's not for me - or you, obviously.

 

Onward, ever onward!

[Andy Macfarlane]

I've never understood why people have problems with bite-indication. Setting up even the most basic alarm with a drop-arm indicator is straightforward. If the line is tight to the bait and the drop-arm head is tight to the spool, a fish cannot move the bait without you knowing about it. Just how much indication do you need?

I RARELY see anyone setting up their indication properly, yet they,ll bang on about their amazing alarms and wonderful indicators that aren't even set up correctly. The drop-arm is often set too far forward of the spool, the range of movement can be measured in inches either way, the alarms will be set at varying sensitivities, the bank-sticks will sway in a light breeze (see nobody ever talks about bank-sticks) and all manner of little things that will affect the efficiency of the setup, yet they wouldn't be SEEN dead using a Micron 'M'.

How is that I can set up a drop-arm indicator and a Micron 'M' in a gale and know about any fish that show an interest in my bait? Bite-indication isn't rocket-science. It doesn't require a PHD to operate properly yet folk get it wrong with regularity. Personally, I think too many people get hung-up on the equipment and not the setting up, like the gear will do it for them.

The single-most important change I made to my bite-indication was my bank-sticks, not the indicators or the alarms. By using solid bank-sticks, I've seen to it that the only time my alarms bleep, is when a fish comes along. A set of 100 quid alarms and swanky bite-indicators will simply not work properly if the bank-sticks they're attached to aren't upto the job.

Maybe if people took the time to actually work out what's wrong with their setup, they wouldn't spend 100s of pounds on pointless equipment.

So, how about a discussion on banksticks or pods or whatever you happen to attach your indication equipment to.