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NFFO slams Seafish appointments


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#111 wurzel

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 08:22 PM

Hi Wurzel

No I wouldn't want all boats tied up, but the breeding females could be returned.

Regards a market for them. This Guy has been selling them for a while

http://www.dogfish.uk.com/skate.html



Hello Ian

I think you will find that they are generally released.

That Guy is selling thornback ray, the picture is of either thornback or blonde ray.

I was talking to my fish merchant to day, he says he has never seen or been offered any large skate.

The problem is it all comes under the name of skate wings, but it never is skate.

Don't worry Ian green peace made the same error. so perhaps fishing is not responsible for the decline in the common skate.
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#112 Leon Roskilly

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 08:32 PM

I was talking to my fish merchant to day, he says he has never seen or been offered any large skate.



It takes many years for a small skate to become a large skate.


If they are taken in the years when they are small, then the number of large skate decreases, until there are none.


The big girls are only found now in a few special places, where they can grow large and the gear doesn't find them.

I doubt that any common skate (large or small) are targeted, but small fish turn up as bycatch, maybe a couple of hands across the wings, skinned and put in the same box as roker etc.,

Who can tell the difference.

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 08:50 PM

It takes many years for a small skate to become a large skate.
If they are taken in the years when they are small, then the number of large skate decreases, until there are none.
The big girls are only found now in a few special places, where they can grow large and the gear doesn't find them.

I doubt that any common skate (large or small) are targeted, but small fish turn up as bycatch, maybe a couple of hands across the wings, skinned and put in the same box as roker etc.,

Who can tell the difference.

Who can tell the difference? Any fish merchant who doesnít want to end up without a trading license, or a large fine or worst under the trades description act.
The majority of by catch skate I have ever seen (caught in a trawl) have swam away quite happily when released Leon. As your catch and release anglers will tell you. they are a very hardy fish are skate.
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#114 wurzel

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 10:34 PM

Hello Leon

Quote
If they are taken in the years when they are small, then the number of large skate decreases, until there are none.

Thats not possible, if it was the same would apply to thornback or blonde ray where even the large ones are landed, there must be something other than fishing effecting them.
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#115 Ian Burrett

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 08:16 AM

Hello Ian

I think you will find that they are generally released.

That Guy is selling thornback ray, the picture is of either thornback or blonde ray.

I was talking to my fish merchant to day, he says he has never seen or been offered any large skate.

The problem is it all comes under the name of skate wings, but it never is skate.

Don't worry Ian green peace made the same error. so perhaps fishing is not responsible for the decline in the common skate.


Hi Wurzel

They are far to large for Thornback.

Did you check on the link. The guy is advertising them as common skate on his website. He states they are from Scottish and Irish waters.

The English longliner that is working the Oban area for Spurdog is from Grimsby, the same town as the common skate seller. Now that is some coincidence.

Edited by Ian Burrett, 09 February 2007 - 08:18 AM.

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#116 Steve Coppolo

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 09:07 AM

Hi Wurzel

They are far to large for Thornback.

Did you check on the link. The guy is advertising them as common skate on his website. He states they are from Scottish and Irish waters.

The English longliner that is working the Oban area for Spurdog is from Grimsby, the same town as the common skate seller. Now that is some coincidence.


So Common Skate are recognised as an endangered species, but they still catch them commercially? That is amazing, .........and very sad. Says it all really.
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#117 Leon Roskilly

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 09:10 AM

Thats not possible, if it was the same would apply to thornback or blonde ray where even the large ones are landed, there must be something other than fishing effecting them.


I must confess that I don't know the biology, but if thornbacks take just a few years to reach maturity, yet common skate decades, the chance of a common reaching maturity and avoiding being taken in the early years would be far less than a thornie or blondie.

Perhaps Ian could shed some light.


In some fisheries 30% of a year group is removed each year.

That works if the species reaches maturity in 4 or 5 years, but is disasterous for slower growing species, especially those of low fecundity (bass produce huge numbers of fry per individual, so the fishery can survive even if few fish reach maturity, but for other species that have few offspring, if only relatively few fish reach adulthood, the fishery can collapse quite easily)


Extirpated by trawling from much of its former range


http://fishbase.org/...ary.php?id=2058

http://fishbase.org/...ary.php?id=2059

http://fishbase.org/...ary.php?id=4552

Edited by Leon Roskilly, 09 February 2007 - 09:20 AM.

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#118 Ian Burrett

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 01:14 PM

So Common Skate are recognised as an endangered species, but they still catch them commercially? That is amazing, .........and very sad. Says it all really.


Hi Steve

No surprise there.

The skate is classed as critically endangered as are Spurdog and Porbeagle shark by the World Conservation Union (IUCN) FAO CITES and every other scientific organisation. The tope is classed as endangered.

I donít blame the commercial fishermen but the European rulers. They had a chance last December to order a zero catch on the above three critically endangered species but whimped out, for fear of upsetting the French and Spanish who between them catch over a half of the worlds landings of elasmobranches.

The Elasmobranches are in deep trouble because of their slow growth rate and the time it takes to reach sexual maturity.

With skate, both males and females mature at around 10 years old when they are roughly 100lb. Very slow reproduction cycle, with females laying around 40 eggs over a few months, roughly every three years.

For a comparison the Thornback, at 6-7 years will produce 140-180 eggs every two years


From http://www.ukbap.org...ans.aspx?ID=543

The common skate is vulnerable to capture by many static and towed fishing gear; it is taken both in target fisheries for rays and as by-catch in other fisheries. Its slow growth and large size at maturity mean that juveniles have little or no chance of surviving to maturity in heavily fished areas. Although no longer targeted where it is very scarce, the common skate continues to be caught as by-catch in fisheries for other species, including more fecund rays. Under these conditions commercial extinction can readily be followed by biological extinction.
Reducing fishing mortality on the mature female component of the
stock is considered an appropriate goal for arresting further declines in
the short-term, and allowing the stock to recover in the medium- to
long-term.


It is the last sentence that encouraged Defra to look at a maximum landing limit

The value to RSA is enormous, "One tagged skate has been recaptured 6 times and that fish alone, with charter and accommodation fees is worth over £5000 to the Scottish economy and it is still swimming around. The same fish would fetch about £10 pounds at the fish market."

Edited by Ian Burrett, 09 February 2007 - 01:33 PM.

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#119 wurzel

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 10:11 PM

Hello Ian

Quote
underside ashy-grey to blue-grey (Ref. 3167).

Like the one I caught, those wings in the picture were white, I don't think they were common skate.


Quote
I donít blame the commercial fishermen but the European rulers. They had a chance last December to order a zero catch on the above three critically endangered species but whimped out, for fear of upsetting the French and Spanish who between them catch over a half of the worlds landings of elasmobranches.


It seem for the north sea at least, you have got what you want, only they have included all skates and rays.
so far every body is ignoring it.
I fish to live and live to fish.

#120 Ian Burrett

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 08:47 AM

Hello Ian

Quote
underside ashy-grey to blue-grey (Ref. 3167).

Like the one I caught, those wings in the picture were white, I don't think they were common skate.
Quote
I donít blame the commercial fishermen but the European rulers. They had a chance last December to order a zero catch on the above three critically endangered species but whimped out, for fear of upsetting the French and Spanish who between them catch over a half of the worlds landings of elasmobranches.
It seem for the north sea at least, you have got what you want, only they have included all skates and rays.
so far every body is ignoring it.


Hi Wurzel

You will know yourself you cannot judge a ray or skate by the color as they will adopt the coloring of the surrounding area. The skate caught in deep muddy holes are almost Black underneath. I once sent photos of a ray to be identified that was jet black on top and underneath. I thought i had caught a hybrid but it turned out it was a thornie living in a wreck of a coal barge.

What do you mean by your quote?

It seem for the north sea at least, you have got what you want, only they have included all skates and rays.
so far every body is ignoring it.


Have I missed something?

Edited by Ian Burrett, 10 February 2007 - 08:48 AM.

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