Big bream

[Dales]

My first thing would be to find out if the carp anglers are catching them and if so how and how many.I keep saying it (and getting poo pooed) but not all bream switch on to carp baits to the same degree.

 

A very good point. I run into some one I used to work with many years ago and he had been fishing for the Carp and said he and others had been catching Big bream on boilies and claimed as many Carper Anglers do that they are plagued with them It's what put me on to the idea of going back to a water I have not fished in a long time. But you are right it's best not to get blinkered and blindly follow the same Carp tactics.

[Dick Dastardly]

But you are right it's best not to get blinkered and blindly follow the same Carp tactics.

 

 

True but don't totally ignore them either.As Brian (Lutra) has shown carp tactics and baits can work well on some waters.

 

The real info is as to what areas they are a "problem" in and where not though.Thanks to the many hours carpers put in you can gain a lot of knowledge very quickly.Make sure they know its the bream your interested in and not the carp and they will tell you every thing!

[Barry C]

The carpers on my local water have figured out that they catch less bream using mainline cell boilies although they still get a few.

If you just copied what they use you would be wrong. But have a chat and they will tell you they steer clear of high fishmeal baits.

 

I think they feel a bit sorry for me being that poor deluded old chap that actually tries to catch bream.

[lutra]

True but don't totally ignore them either.As Brian (Lutra) has shown carp tactics and baits can work well on some waters.

Having fished around a bit with other bream anglers (it isn't just me using them for bream) and on waters that don't have carp in them (therefore don't see much in the way of carp baits). I think you would be truly amazed at the instant effectiveness of some of them carp baits. If you pick the right flavour for bream and fish it in the right way, Ive found them to be as consistent as any bait, even on waters that can't have seen much if any of them before.

 

Truth be known, I'm not really the kind of angler who's first line of attack would be to stick a boilie on a method feeder, rods on bite alarms and go to bed. Given the option i would much sooner sit behind a swing tip any day, but if it works.........

[lutra]

The carpers on my local water have figured out that they catch less bream using mainline cell boilies although they still get a few.

If you just copied what they use you would be wrong. But have a chat and they will tell you they steer clear of high fishmeal baits.

 

I think they feel a bit sorry for me being that poor deluded old chap that actually tries to catch bream.

Can't say Ive much experience of carp water bream, but my findings on the best boilie types would still fit with what you say Barry.

Edited January 1, 2011 by lutra

[watatoad]

I am toying with doing some Bream fishing on a local water later next year Walthamstow Reservoirs. I used to fish it for Bream around twenty years ago and it produced plenty of shoal Bream in the 7 - 9 lb bracket. They would show to "old skool" tactics of plenty of balled in groundbait, maggots, castors and chopped worm.

 

The fishery has drifted more and more to big Carp fishing mainly due to a massive population of cormorants that have been in residence for many years. It's supposed to be one of the biggest cormorant rookeries in the UK and they have devastated the general pleasure fishing.

 

However I have started to hear plenty of good things about the Bream fishing over the last year with doubles seemingly plentiful and in large shoals with a good head of fish in the 11lb to 14lb bracket. It's a day ticket only fishery with no night fishing but its local and so would be easy to do a few day sessions. So certainly worth doing a mini campaign to see if the rumours are true.

 

I've been mulling it over the last few weeks and think a scaled down Carp approach with spodding plenty of pellet and mini boilies and fishing PVA bags might work as I am guessing the increase in size may be down to the Bream getting switched on to the Carp baits.

 

I did read a piece in one of the angling rags early this year when they done a weekend session on the reservoirs and tried a maggot and feeder approach on the Saturday that did not seem to work but when they tried the boilie approach on the Sunday they had fish to 12lb.

 

It's certainly worth having a go.

 

Going back about 15 or so years there used to be a large shoal of big Bream the Hertford side of the Weir at Ware they were corn crazy and would not touch anything else.

 

Another large shoal was to be found at Roydon Mill near Hoddesdon.

 

With another by a power station along that area but I cannot remember its name.

 

Another good area used to be St. Margarets.

 

But as I said that was all over 15 years ago, guess it may well have changed a bit since then.

[lutra]

I never had a multiple catch there. I spoke to a few of the guys years later about this and suggested that I had been doing something wrong.Those who had caught the bigger fish thought that I must have been doing some thing different and despite comparing methods,baits etc (as we were all quite open with each other,even between different rotas) couldn't see anything other than I tended to fish bigger baits and use more feed than most.

This "more feed than most" is this a similar approach to the one the multi catchless Anderoo uses? Lots of spods but no food i think he calls it.

 

IMO it could well be why he seems to have fish in his swim that haven't got their heads down picking up his hook bait and why they seem very spooky. It could also account for all them line bites he gets, as they root and trying to find something to eat.

 

Sorry Anderoo just trying to be constructive.

[Dick Dastardly]

This "more feed than most" is this a similar approach to the one the multi catchless Anderoo uses? Lots of spods but no food i think he calls it.

 

IMO it could well be why he seems to have fish in his swim that haven't got their heads down picking up his hook bait and why they seem very spooky. It could also account for all them line bites he gets, as they root and trying to find something to eat.

 

Sorry Anderoo just trying to be constructive.

 

When I first fished both Queenford and TC I used the only baiting technique I knew/had used that worked on other waters........and that was to pile it in! The massive bream shoals of the River Waser and Lydd Watersports had conditioned me to this.Trips away in Ireland and Scotland to bream waters had only confirmed this. It took some time for the penny to drop that on these SB?LSD waters it wasn't going to work purely due to the vast difference in stock levels.

 

I then drew on my carp fishing experience on LSD waters with particles and mass baits (I had done very well on some of the countries hardest "boilie" waters using mass baiting techniques with baits such as hemp,Dari seed,buck wheat. Lots of very small bits of food that would hopefully (and with the carp it did) keep them in the area feeding but not filling them.Biggest problem was that bream didn't seem to like any of the mass baits that I had gained confidence in with the carp! Other guys at Queenford were/had kind of (even if not consciously) gone the same way using small baits such as caster. I think their approach had come more from a "bream matches on the meres" back ground though. Either way the idea of more feed less food became pretty much established.Once everyone was using it it obviously started to fall in to the category of "self fulfilling prophecy" as its all that was used so was all that fish were caught on.

 

Since this thread started and having watched Anderoos progress reports at Wingham I have wondered if the reason I caught "regular" but never big or multiple was in fact due the fact that I was swim "vulturing" so by in effect having more food in the swim than most were using by then (ie my feed plus the previous occupants) But once again another theory full of holes as in practice all were fishing a swim that had been fished/baited the previous rota just that the one I fished had usually produced.

 

Once again no answers but it still points to feeding being the key.

 

Just having re read this Ive just thought that in fact it might have been the other way round! By the fact I was fishing the swim that had produced I could have been effectively fishing over less bait than the other guys.The fact that fish had been caught from my swim maybe meant the previous feed had been eaten where the other guys were fishing over both their feed and the un eaten feed of the previous occupant? Wish I had more detailed notes as I'm trying to remember if the multiple catches had come from "virgin swims" ie ones that hadn't been fished the previous week (so not baited) or not.

Edited January 3, 2011 by BUDGIE

[lutra]

When I first fished both Queenford and TC I used the only baiting technique I knew/had used that worked on other waters........and that was to pile it in! The massive bream shoals of the River Waser and Lydd Watersports had conditioned me to this.Trips away in Ireland and Scotland to bream waters had only confirmed this. It took some time for the penny to drop that on these SB?LSD waters it wasn't going to work purely due to the vast difference in stock levels.

 

I then drew on my carp fishing experience on LSD waters with particles and mass baits (I had done very well on some of the countries hardest "boilie" waters using mass baiting techniques with baits such as hemp,Dari seed,buck wheat. Lots of very small bits of food that would hopefully (and with the carp it did) keep them in the area feeding but not filling them.Biggest problem was that bream didn't seem to like any of the mass baits that I had gained confidence in with the carp! Other guys at Queenford were/had kind of (even if not consciously) gone the same way using small baits such as caster. I think their approach had come more from a "bream matches on the meres" back ground though. Either way the idea of more feed less food became pretty much established.Once everyone was using it it obviously started to fall in to the category of "self fulfilling prophecy" as its all that was used so was all that fish were caught on.

 

Since this thread started and having watched Anderoos progress reports at Wingham I have wondered if the reason I caught "regular" but never big or multiple was in fact due the fact that I was swim "vulturing" so by in effect having more food in the swim than most were using by then (ie my feed plus the previous occupants) But once again another theory full of holes as in practice all were fishing a swim that had been fished/baited the previous rota just that the one I fished had usually produced.

 

Once again no answers but it still points to feeding being the key.

 

Just having re read this Ive just thought that in fact it might have been the other way round! By the fact I was fishing the swim that had produced I could have been effectively fishing over less bait than the other guys.The fact that fish had been caught from my swim maybe meant the previous feed had been eaten where the other guys were fishing over both their feed and the un eaten feed of the previous occupant? Wish I had more detailed notes as I'm trying to remember if the multiple catches had come from "virgin swims" ie ones that hadn't been fished the previous week (so not baited) or not.

For me feeding holds most of the answers to Budgie.

 

Interesting that we both started out bream fishing similar types of water and probably similar baiting tactic's (fill it in), yet we both moved away from that style. Fishing more LSD waters style waters seemed teach me that very little bait was needed to catch a small handful of fish. Half a dozen medium size feeders (feeder made into a spod) worth of chopped up bait is all i ever start with these days.

 

Nowadays even when fishing waters that hold good numbers of big (or even sometimes small) bream, i still start the same way, but will rely on that very small home made spod or a feeder to feed things on to make bigger catches. If it's happening and conditions are right, you can then move on to a bigger spod or balling in. None of them big catches of good sized bream or big fish for up north that me and my mates have caught have come from feeding big beds of feed to start off with.

Edited January 3, 2011 by lutra

[Dick Dastardly]

None of them big catches of good sized bream or big fish for up north that me and my mates have caught have come from feeding big beds of feed to start off with.

 

 

Now that has surprised me.ALL of the big catches Ive made have come from really filling it in to start with and with river bream continuing to do so for as long as I'm fishing! Still water wise I didn't like putting feed in "over their heads" so I wanted a big bed to last.Would get away with loose feeding on top of them though.

 

Oh to be able to go back in time and see if different aproachs would have worked.because enevitably if something was working at the time I wouldnt change it!