No Take Zones - Good for Anglers?

[big_cod]

But that's Florida, and this is here. We won't ever get the restrictions on commercial fishing, that they have in Florida, needed to complete the picture. What will happen to the fish when they move out of the NTZ on the tide? Or when they migrate to where they migrate to when they are not in the NTZ? What are the benefits of the NTZ's we have already in place, like the mile exclusion zones around all the hundreds of gas and oil instalations? There are hundreds of miles of NTZ's in the North sea, and yet North sea Cod stocks are in trouble. What does that tell you?

 

There already is quite a few ntz along our coast closed for heavy commercial trawling these areas have been in place for many years now socalled closed areas which are nurserys and classed as breeding areas but over the years they have been fished heavily at times, and the fines have been peanuts dished out by the local magistrates infact you could get fined more for not haveing no insurance on your car the local magistrates are a laughing stock.

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Hello Ken

 

After looking at the site I still stick to my opinion, no take zones will do little for fish stocks. resident lobsters will obviously increase in size and numbers, (although lobsters have increased every where with out help) and I accept a fisherman who is lucky enough to fish along the borders would catch a few more lobsters, but only if there was lobster habitat for them to move into, if the Lundy no take zone was surrounded by clean sandy ground, you would not catch many lobsters no mater how many there were in side the no take area.

I can see that a few resident species like conger or wrasse would benefit but:

QUOTE

 

However, it's not all good news - the divers filmed lots of damaged seafans, and the number of Red Band fish has dwindled from 14,000 some 30 years ago, to just a handful.

 

One of the marine biologists, Tom Mercer, surveyed Gannet's Bay to assess the seafan population - and he was disappointed with what was discovered.

 

"We found areas of seafans where there is seaweed growing around them, and in that place something approaching 50% of seafans were fouled in some way," he said.

 

Marine experts believe global warming, pollution or dredging in the Bristol Channel could be to blame. Industry in South Wales may also be affecting the waters.

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Like I've always said there are other things afoot that have much more effect on fish than fishing.

I can except places like Lundy for what it is, a nature reserve, but not as a tool to increase commercial fish stocks.

 

And Ken bass nursery areas have had about as much effect on bass stocks as banning hand guns has on gun crime.

 

Hi Wurzle,

 

As I said I am new to Lundy NTZ but the ones I spoke about in the Gulf worked and worked well, commercial activities were nil totally fished out, inshore reefs destroyed. Concrete hollow shapes were dropped to form artificial reefs and these were soon covered in soft corals, shrimps and other small crustaceans moved in followed by fish. A whole new eco-system was established in a very short period, which did so well further monies were introduced early to expand the project.

 

Different areas will need different approaches the bass nurseries near here work the beaches are swarming with them, the trouble is all the developing fish which move further out towards Worms Head and other areas are depleted with miles of mono.

 

If an area from Swansea across to Temby was net free given a few years and there would be a major difference. I am sure the average size of beach caught bass would rise and areas outside would benefit from larger fish. It will not be just bass that would benefit from this help, flounders, sole, bream just to mention a few would also flourish.

 

I accept that it is not quite that straight forward and to day many other factors must be considered but I cannot see that it would harm to try NTZ in a few areas as a tester.

 

Nothing lost and a chance to have a gain.

[JB]

What are the benefits of the NTZ's we have already in place, like the mile exclusion zones around all the hundreds of gas and oil instalations? There are hundreds of miles of NTZ's in the North sea, and yet North sea Cod stocks are in trouble. What does that tell you?

 

Along with the hundreds of oil and gas installations, each with their NTZs, there are hundreds of square miles of the North Sea bed covered with crab or whelk pots, which are unofficial ‘no take zones’ for trawlers (apart from the French, that is!). There is a small by-catch of fish from these pots, but I don’t believe it is a major issue.

 

Throughout the summer, I fish or travel across the Dogger Bank - an area of approximately 6,800 square miles. This summer I have only come across two Danish anchor rope seiners fishing for plaice. I have been told that they are the only ones left. In the seventies, there were over five hundred of these types of vessels from Esbjerg in Denmark and over two hundred from Grimsby, along with many others from other ports all working the Dogger Bank. The only commercial vessels we see in abundance are industrial sandeel ships and no one seems bothered about them or the consequences of industrial fishing.

 

So, in effect, because it receives so little effort from the English white fish fleet it could be almost called the Golden Dogger Bank. In fact, the central North Sea, apart from a little bit of commercial effort close to shore, could be classified in the same way.

 

The whole subject is very complex and has many influencing factors. But if everyone on here had seen what I have seen over the years, many might find themselves less scathing of the commercial fishermen and far more scathing of our government, who are directly responsible for the monumental lash-up of the CFP and the loss of our fish stocks which was - but apparently is no longer - our birthright.

 

JB

[barry luxton]

Hi Guys, Although i'm new to this site i have been reading the posts for several weeks. I believe that John's responce to this topic is 100% I believe that the food chain has been and is still being decimated by the use of factory ships destroying the population of sand eels purely for the purpose of 'animal feed'.

 

At the top end of the channel, we used to have a magical area called the varne bank, during the summer seasons there used to be many charter boats drifting with pirks etc for the run of summer cod. Not any more. Anytime the codling regroup or reach say three pounds they are scooped up remorsely with no hope of getting to a reasonable worthwhile size. This is were i believe a NTZ would be more than appropriate if only for a short period of five years to make this area again worth while for both commercial and rca's.

[wurzel]

Hello Barry

Welcome to AN

 

Quote

At the top end of the channel, we used to have a magical area called the varne bank, during the summer seasons there used to be many charter boats drifting with pirks etc for the run of summer cod. Not any more. Anytime the codling regroup or reach say three pounds they are scooped up remorsely with no hope of getting to a reasonable worthwhile size. This is were i believe a NTZ would be more than appropriate if only for a short period of five years to make this area again worth while for both commercial and rca's.

 

 

I doubt making the Verne a NTZ would make any difference, in five years time if there were no cod on the other banks ie: Ridge or the Sandette there would be like wise none on the Verne.

 

I am not so sure on Johns theories about the sand eel fishery, no doubt the Danish fleet make a dent, but it don't explain why sand eels have depleted from other areas not fished.

[FishingGuernsey]

I am not so sure on Johns theories about the sand eel fishery, no doubt the Danish fleet make a dent, but it don't explain why sand eels have depleted from other areas not fished.

 

are sandeels migratory like some other fish species? I would guess they might be but some areas more than others?

[wurzel]

Germany has as the very first EU state completed their marine SPA program (Special Protected Areas- marine and inland as required by the Habitats Directive). As I understand it the Germans have included parts of the Dogger Bank in their SPA allocation scheme (but not as yet decided what kind of limitiations should be put on their fishermen in this area). Maybe other EU Member States should follow suit?

 

Hello Fishingsfine

 

Do the Germans fish the Dogger bank much? I'm not sure they do, it is easy to stop doing something when you never did it in the first place.Probably got some old fuel hungry beam trawlers that ar packing up any way.

Sounds like the, being seen to do some thing, with out actually doing anything, syndrome.

[seaside]

Germany has as the very first EU state completed their marine SPA program (Special Protected Areas- marine and inland as required by the Habitats Directive). As I understand it the Germans have included parts of the Dogger Bank in their SPA allocation scheme (but not as yet decided what kind of limitiations should be put on their fishermen in this area). Maybe other EU Member States should follow suit?

 

 

In May 2004 Germany nominated ten NATURA 2000 areas in the offshore areas of its EEZ in the North Sea and Baltic Sea to EU (see Figure 1). Germany is the first EU Member State with a complete set of marine NATURA 2000 nominations. The nominated MPAs within the German EEZ account for 31.5% of the total offshore German marine area.

 

The Scottish Exec won't even given Arran a few square kilometres !!!!

 

In February 2006, ICES started a new project entitled “Environmentally Sound Fishery Management in Protected Areas” to develop fisheries management plans for each of the ten German NATURA 2000 areas. The project is funded by the German Federal Agency for Nature Conservation (BfN) and will run for three years with the first project workshop taking place in April 2006.

 

For further info ( in English ) http://www.habitatmare.de/en/intro.php

Edited October 30, 2006 by seaside

[JB]

Germany has as the very first EU state completed their marine SPA program (Special Protected Areas- marine and inland as required by the Habitats Directive). As I understand it the Germans have included parts of the Dogger Bank in their SPA allocation scheme (but not as yet decided what kind of limitiations should be put on their fishermen in this area). Maybe other EU Member States should follow suit?

 

If the North Sea were to be divided up for fishing rights in the same way as it is for oil and gas rights, Germany would not be entitled to ANY of the Dogger Bank. The fact is, most of it lies in the UK oil and gas zone. Yet apparently they appear to have the authority to make part of it a SPA.

Is this yet another example of us being royally screwed by the EU with their blundering doomsday machine, the CFP.

Unless I am mistaken, we only have complete control of our fish stocks up to the six mile limit.

 

I think we have to face the fact that although our government pays lip service to addressing the problems of all the ‘stakeholders’, it actually cares nothing for those who fish, and only values our depleted fish stocks as a bargaining tool within the EU. Many things could be done to improve fishing around our island, but I believe the main and only positive thing is to get the government to genuinely value fish stocks and all those who fish. Sadly, this is extremely unlikely.

 

JB

[barry luxton]

Hello Barry

Welcome to AN

 

Quote

 

I doubt making the Verne a NTZ would make any difference, in five years time if there were no cod on the other banks ie: Ridge or the Sandette there would be like wise none on the Verne.

 

Thanks for the welcome Wurzel. Two posts and you have shot me down in flames already. I state the varne bank as fished out commercially apart from many, many small immature cod that have not and do not get the chance to breed before being shovelled up. From a commercial point of view this fish at that size cannot have a great value. I therefore do not see any problem in making this area a NTZ. From a rsa point of veiw i do not 'get off' from catching this size of codling all day, again i consider it appropriate to make it a NTZ. If after a period of time there is no improvement, then revert back to the same old situation of every one takes all? If there is an improvement then the suggestion is to manage the area sustainably.

 

Thanks again Elton for putting me right.

 

Regards barry