waterman1013

Hi guys Last year on December 17th we found a dead pike of 26.06, 42 inches from nose to fork, 21 inches girth, and have had her set up. Chris Elliott, who did the setting, said she had a few eggs remaining but was fully spawned out. That means she spawned during the first two weeks of December, or earlier. The water she came from is spring fed from about 56 feet below ground level, old water cress beds dug out, and the feed is a fairly constant 48 degrees farenheit (sp). I have seen pike on this water spawning in January and February but was surprised to have it confirmed that she had spawned so early. Do any of you have similar experiences or knowledge of such early spawning? Do you think this water is unusual or was it the weather and water temp. combined which turned them on so early? Should we look at changing the pike season dates on this water? Mike

Nice to see the RFU encouraging youngster into the game with lots of coverage on terrestial TV of the natioal team. Not!!!! Still I suppose they think money is more important than the future of the game, now that the crowd is mostly there on corporate junkets. Mike

Seems to get stiff in cold weather, knot strength is fine. I have fished with it for two years now but still prefer my old lines, even though it has never let me down.

Looks to me like a readership or marketing survey to attract advertisers and secure future advertising revenue. No problem with that, but why dress it up will all this "Angler Power Survey"? If it is about "Angler Power" then the questions are almost valueless to the future of angling, but quite important to the future of the tackle trade perhaps. No freepost address I notice. My favourite brand of reel? Surely to most anglers that will depend entirely on what they are fishing for that day. Same with "My favourite bait". I sent it in with a note on the bottom, which AT may not relish. Mike

lyn He was making the announcement that angling and commercial fishing were both excluded from the Animal Welfare Bill after lobbying and evidence from angling and commercial bodies. He was also attempting to push angling unity forward. Both good things. Mike

Welcome aboard Budgie and awaar. Thanks for the support. Hi Lyn No, I have not stepped aside, whatever Angling Times might say in print. They were referring to John Hepworth, the new membership secretary, but dropped out the word “membership”. They have not printed a correction, as yet, even though I mailed them straight away and suggested one. Mike

What do you get when you join SAA? Well since August we have been at and taken an active role in the following meetings/consultations/campaigns; DEFRA Consultation on Animal Welfare Bill EFFRA Committee Consultation on Animal Welfare Bill Unity Group meetings moving a unified body for angling closer to reality Attendance at local consultative meetings Attendance at RFERAC meetings Response to DEFRA on Enforcement at Sea Meetings with EA Head of Fisheries Meetings with Martin Salter MP Input into AnglerSay poll on angling unity and funding Meetings on anti-angling Meeting to discuss the future of BRFC Submission to BRFC on needed changes Attend Thames Fishery Strategy meeting Attend NFA “The Future of Freshwater Fisheries” meeting Writing a column for New Specialist Angler magazine. Preparing the new look SAA website. Writing letters to the angling press. Writing letters to local press where anti angling comments and letters had been published. Briefing angling press with back ground to events in angling. Organising a conference on live baiting. Giving advice to anglers seeking clubs with particular fishing Answering perhaps 30 emails a day on these and other topics. All of these needed preparation and papers to support the case for specialist angling and angling in general. And that list is just for one of the SAA committee. Multiply it by four or five and you begin to get an idea of just how much representation you get for £10.00 a year. No, you don’t have to get involved, your money is incredibly valuable in supporting this work, someone has to pay for the paper and ink as well as travelling expenses. SAA is primarily an organisation to represent the specialist groups but our individual members are the ones who mostly do the work. So individual members are very important to us and you can join today using PayPal for only £10.00 a year. Mike Heylin Secretary SAA

Any news on the state of the R. Ouse at St Ives Huntingdon? Lads got rained off a couple of weeks ago and want to go this weekend if it is lower and not quite so like chocolate sauce. Thanks Mike

Hi Lyn Alan has it right. We were talking to Les in July at the CVAC meeting and he was telling us of the nightime danglers he gets breaking in across the RMC site next door and nicking his fish. Lovely venue if I can make once you have a date I shall certainly try, Just down the road for me and Big Al. Mike

Thanks StuMac One of the few useful and intelligent posts on this thread. I learnt a lot and hopefully so did others. Interesting the difference between "feel" and "experience". Question. Is that Pat Wall who was doing research into pain, I think, at Leicester Uni? I heard a pice on Radio 4 some time ago but was driving and could not note down the details of the interviewee. Mike

Stumac Can you name the research which shows that fish have "all the necessary nerves to feel pain"? Dr Rose would certainly disagree with you, as would most of the angling community. Fish, both game and sea, are given the priest as soon as possible to preserve the flavour and texture of the meat, not because they might "suffer unecessarily". I game fish and no one has ever given me such advice. Indeed the waters I fish were amongst the first to resist taking spring run fish. Now no fish may be taken and all are sent to the hatchery to strengthen future generations of fresh run fish. But I have been surprised at just how much "playing" of the fish some game anglers can manage. No wonder they knock their prey on the head, it is fit for nothing after having been played for so long. Mike

Peter I think the word you want is quadruped, but even they are not all furry and cuddly!! To use the term "animal", even in jest, just confuses those who are trying to read what you have to say. If something is alive it is either a plant or an animal. If it is not an animal then by definition it must be a plant. Fish are most certainly not plants. Mike

It is an offence under the Countryside and Wildlife Act to introduce non-native species into the wild. It is an offence to introduce any fish to waters without a section 30 consent from the Environment Agency. Many anglers would consider such actions to be an environmental crime of the highest magnitude. If you want to use a gold coloured bait use a dyed dead bait. Golfish are cyprinids and can carry any amount of diseases which might infect the local population, particularly other cyprinids i.e. carp. You should not use them. Alive or dead, unless theyhave been deep frozen for some time. Mike

Allibee Check out my profile. I don't think my members would be too pleased if I were to ask dear old Charlie for any help on angling matters. Angling is still trying to recover from his wonderful letter writing campaign to local papers about cormorants, where he implied we should be culling all piscavorious birds to protect fish for anglers. Many members of the public took him to mean kingfishers and herons, rather than gooseanders. Both the former favourites with most anglers and the public. Between SAA, NFA and the other members of the National Angling Alliance there is plenty of experience at dealing with draft legislation. I did not respond to this thread to find help but to highlight the dangers to all reading this thread of poorly drafted legislation, which, even unintentionally, could lead to problems for anglers going about their lawful business. I appreciate your suggestion but I think we can probably manage this without involving the CA, who are not known for their animal welfare agenda.

Elton Don't give up the day job. Mike

Sorry. Working on the evidence and suggested amends at the moment. It might take a while. Mike

Allibee Could I suggest you read Clause 53, subsection (1) and Clause 54, subsection 2, paragraph ( (i) and (iii) and subsection (3). Clause 53 Subsection (1) Subject to the provisions of this section, in this Act, “animal” means a vertebrate other than man. That includes fish. Clause 54 Subsection (2) An animal is a “protected animal” for the purposes of this Act if – ( (i) is being kept by man or (iii) is temporarily in the custody or control of man. ( (i) covers fish kept in lakes and ponds and therefore in law owned, rather than the wild fish in rivers, which belong to no one. (iii) covers fish retained in keepnets Subsection (3) An animal is “kept by man” for the purposes of this Act if there is a person who owns or is responsible for, or in charge of it. This subsection covers fish kept in lakes and ponds and therefore in law owned and therefore “kept by man”. This draft Act is significantly different from that which was published for the consultation period. Although DEFRA are claiming it does not affect fish, poor drafting ensures that the AR brigade could use it against clubs and individuals. Mike

Ian How close are you to any caged salmon farms in sea lochs? If they are close to you, have you looked at tidal flows in the eight hours before you found the dead fish? Is there a tidal run from a caged fish farm towards that area? Have SEPA placed any restrictions on the shell fish fishery near Luce Bay? Have they even done any tests after your report to them? SEPA will always defend the aquaculture industry! They have too many vested interests involved to admit it might be a pollution from salmon farms. It would be very interesting if we could show a tidal flow from one to the other. I don't know the area hence my questions. Mike

Ben Bradshaw claims to be an angler. Does he know that fish are vertebrates? You can read the draft bill at http://www.official-documents.co.uk/docume...2/6252/6252.pdf . The launch document and government statements are not what is in the draft! The draft is badly written and must be amended. The consultation period is ended but the House of Commons Enviroment, Food & rural Affairs Committee will be taking evidence as show below; Request for Written Evidence: All interested parties are invited to submit written evidence which addresses the provisions of the draft Bill. The deadline for the submission of evidence is Wednesday 25 August 2004. Due to time restrictions, late submissions may not be considered by the Committee. Please read closely the guidelines about the format of submissions, set out below. Evidence should be submitted in Word or WordPerfect formats, and should be sent by e-mail to animalwelfarebill@parliament.uk. The body of the e-mail must include a contact name, telephone number and postal address. The e-mail should also make clear who the submission is from. Submissions should be as brief as possible, and certainly no more than 3,000 words. Paragraphs should be numbered for ease of reference, and the document should include a brief executive summary. Those submitting evidence are reminded that evidence should be original work, not previously published or circulated elsewhere. Once submitted no public use should be made of it, but those wishing to publish their evidence before it is published by the Committee are invited to contact the Clerk of the Committee to obtain permission to do so. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oral Evidence Sessions: At this stage, the Committee expects to take oral evidence on the draft Bill during the weeks of 6 and 13 September. Further details will be announced in due course. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Press Notices: 14/07/2004 Invitation to submit written evidence Alli and Graham, could you both do angling a favour and take your argument elsewheere for now. This legislation is actually pretty important to the future of our sport. And both of you are disrupting this thread. We all enjoy a verbal battle but pick another time and place, please. Thank you Mike

Why not talk fishing during the racing? It would be more interesting!! Mike

Yes Budgie. SAA spoke to EA Fisheries at a National level within a day or two of the alleged offence being reported for the first time by a member of this board to us and before it had made the angling press. SAA expressed our concerns that the laws governing fisheries should be applied, especially where there appears to be good evidence of wrongdoing. We received a very positive response. More than that I cannot say. regards Mike

Hi Peter My concerns where not with your posts but the danger that the press reports and comments on boards could be used as a defence when sense prevails and the prosecution moves forward. The investigating team should make no public response, or any response which might be quoted in public, while the evidence is being assembled and investigated. Therefore it is most unlikely that anyone, at this stage, will get the sort of answers you, me and others might be seeking at the moment. My concerns in posting were to stop comments being made which might give his team a defence. Trent burbellor - I don't think SAA would refuse your £10.00 if you applied. We need the money to keep the fight going. Nice of you to have missed me, I look in occasionally but do not post much, unless the topic warrants it. Club, consultative, SAA and NAA keep me busy enough and that is without dancing, the Hospice and other things in my life, like trying to earn some pennies. SAA has spoken to EA nationally on the Collins issue. We are getting positive noises but I will not say more than that. I understand that the officer concerned has now left EA. Read between the lines and understanding may dawn. Still a barbel virgin, but then I only made it to my river once this past season and that was for a work party! ATB Mike

If a little sense prevailed around here, you would be taking action in private and not passing comment. A good barrister could plead some of the comments posted on this matter and claim no chance of a fair trial. That might already be the case with some of the press coverage given to the matter. So Peter you now want SAA and NAA to spend the money you didn't subscribe to prosecuting someone who may yet be prosecuted by the authorities. It really is about time some sense prevailed. The EA cannot and will not, quite rightly, comment while their investigations are proceeding and evidence being built for the case. Even if it is an open and shut case, the investigation and evidence has to satisfy the CPS, and if you read the papers you will know that is not always as easy as it should be. Approaches to the ombudsman would be premature, as is much of this thread. Mike

Speak to; Richard Lee Editor Angling Times On 01733 232600 And/or Tim Knight Editor Anglers Mail On 020 7261 5778 Mike

Nigel Try Mike Storey on 01652 655849 Mike