Captain Sensible

Hello Barry, I think the point I am making has been made. If you are satisfied with the management of fisheries by europe, then from your perspective there is no problem.

The point being made is that these ships are catching vast amounts of fish just on the horizon which is usually ignored on this forum. Some members being more interested in taking cheap shots at the small part of the catching sector that they can see.

Try this link http://shipais.com/showship.php?mmsi=235010670 . Look for the Cornelis Vrolijk Fzn and the Atlantic Princess.

Yes Leon, between 3.5 and 4.5 knots.

Thank you for that Leon, these are huge pelagic trawlers over 109 meters in length each towing a single midwater trawl. They are fishing for either herring, sprats, mackerel or scads. No doubt they are fishing legally. Any bass bycatch is a bonus. Please don't confuse legallity with morality.

Thanks for your replies men. The two ships in question are still in the area. My guess is that they are still processing last nights catch. I take your point Barry about what they are allowed to land. Let's just suppose they catch fish they have no quota for or more bass than they can land (probably never happens). Its back over the side with it as I know you are aware. Their discards alone would probably pay to keep most of the under 10m fleet tied up. I'm glad that some of you appreciate what goes on over the horizon.

You can laugh but I am deadly seious when I tell you that two of the ships I have named are fishing, as I type this, just over 10miles south of Lizard point. This is no joke. Please google those names.

It may interest readers of this forum that there are now three huge pelagic trawlers south of the Lizard now,the Dirk Diederik, Atlantic Princess, and Cornelius Vrolijk Fzn. Two of them are registered in this country and are Dutch owned,fishing quite legally i'm sure against the UK quota. They are just outside the 12 mile limit and are not therefore seen by most anglers. Google these babies and guess how much fish thy have to catch to remain viable. Worth considering when you blame aman in a thirty foot boat for catching all the bass? ps at least one was just off the mouth of the Tees two weeks ago, again about 12 miles off.

Sorry Barry, perhaps I should have said commercial boat skippers with a financial interest in fish stocks. Bit of a mouthfull though.

Hello HA I am sorry that it gives you grief that commercial fishermen post on this forum. I think that that it is important that they do. It is makes sense that in any discussion that both sides of an argument are aired, otherwise it's just me/you and my/your mates down the pub pushing against an open door. Quote "It is apparent to rod and line recreational hobbyists that quotas, when enforced, have been accompanied by increases in biomass of these species in those areas." Which species and where? Based on what evidence? Quote "Quotas are almost certainly not the management tool we (all fishermen) need, but they have had an effect on regional stocks." They may well have had an effect on regional stocks but has this been the effect expected or indeed of any benefit to any one? Quote "I was lucky enough to have been a deckhand on an under 10 potting for crabs and lobsters off Bognor. There was always enough for a fair living. I don't know how long ago this was but you may not know that shellfish prices have stayed the same for the last 10-12 years. You will be aware that the price of fuel, steel, netting, rope, maintainance has incresed in line with inflation. I wonder that if you were to repeat the experience whether you would still find enoughto make a fair living As has been said previously, commercial fishermen have far, far more to lose when it all goes wrong.

I suppose that it takes a particular type of man to become a successful skipper of a fishing boat. Some of the qualities I believe are needed are a mixture of tenaciousness, stubborness, an ability to put your money where your mouth is, and sheer bloody mindidness. These can be useful traits when finding and catching fish but not much good when it comes to agreeing on a solution to the current problems facing the fishing industry. It is particularly sad to see three fishermen from the under 10M fleet arguing with each other about the way forward as I have seen them doing in the preceeding posts to this topic. As I am sure has been said before but, it is this tendency to splinter into different groups depending on locality and method of fishing that has put us in the situation that we are in now. There is never any united stand because of the supremely competitive nature of fishing which can lead to a certain amount of selfishness. The main problem as I see it is the management tool being used to regulate fisheries ie quotas. Scientists can do their sums based on the data they have. It all goes down on paper, tons of the stuff I should imagine. This paper is passed on through endless commitees who in their turn produce more paperwork which is meant to give the impression that they are actually doing real work. Then decisions are taken based on this paper work which has been produced in a place so far from the real world that in practical terms they lead to the depressing result of discards and more fishermen having to pack up. Quotas, in the vast majoriy of cases, work only as a paper exercise because the oceans of the world have a dynamic which is far too complex for scientists let alone the members of the various commitees to understand. I believe that reliance on the quota system is particularly damaging to the under 10M fleet, who by the very size of the boats is unable to shoot their nets (be they static or towed), discover that they are catching fish that they are not able to land and so steam to another area which may produce the a better proportion of fish which they may land. The smaller boats are and always have been oportunistic, catching the fish that are available on their own little patch when it is there. They have such a small impact on the fish stocks compared to the larger boats and are so limited in the area of operation that there should be much more flexibility in ther regulation. I have never met a skipper of an under 10M boat who has made more than a reasonable living with a lot of hard work. In most cases they barely scratch a living and I really do not understand the vicious attacks on them that I have read on this forum. To restate my case I believe that the way forward needs to see more flexibility towards the regulation of the under 10M fleet.

Sounds like a load of bo**@cks to me. Or not?

Damn those commercial fishermen!

I thought you were last weeks big talker Cheap shot I know but I couldn't resist it Sorry Sam

Well here is a man who knows absolutely nothing about commercial fishing, who is prepared to blame all the "problems with fish stocks" entirely on commercial fishermen and implies that the fishermen involved in the filming for the BBC are liars. And you say his opinions are just about fine. I hope you were using irony here!

It may well have been a crap program, that for each of us to decide. It was at least entertaining. Perhaps you should try a couple of trips from Peterhead, at least then your opinion of fishermen would be a little more informed. I'm sure it's not something that I would like do!

Leon, like me you were brought up with inches and feet, I think you are confusing cm with mm.

As you probably know darnsarf bylaws on net legality vary from region to region. It would be worth the original poster to measure the mesh size and then check with his local sea fish committee to end all this speculation.

--> QUOTE(Norm B @ Aug 5 2006, 09:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Of the percentage of tope that are tagged I would have thought that to get a tagged one was quite an achievement. Thank you Norm B. What is the percentage of tope that are tagged?

I'm sorry to disapoint you but the mesh size sounds more likely to be 4" ie 2" from one knot to the next. If this is the case it would only catch very large mackerel and would be more likely to catch bass, if they were there, that were well over the minimum landing size.

So Ian this is the first tagged tope you have ever caught, what does that say about the survival rate of catch and release? This is a genuine concern of mine and a point which should be addressed.

I am only disputing the words "directly down to commercial fishing."

"It's because no matter what excuses are made, the real reason why sea angling is a mere shadow of what it used to be is directly down to commercial fishing." It's a funniy thing that you should say that sea angling is a mere shadow when all the reports suggest that the number of sea anglers is at an all time high (especially those making a political point), while the number of fishermen is in sharp decline. You must be pretty certain of your evidence to affirm that any decline is directly down to commercial fishing. Perhaps someone with your knowledge of the sea's ecology should be advising government scientists.

Excuse me but I thought this was an angling forum where people go to exchange views about angling. Unfortunately there also appears to be a number of members who use it as a place to make cheap shots at people who work long, unsocial hours in often very uncomfortable conditions for very little money. Why is this?

Nice smilies, but did you read what the skipper's report. Having had some experience of newspaper reporting Iam inclined to believe his version. By the wayI wonder how long your porbeagle lived after you released it!