Ban pointed kitchen knives?

[Peter Waller]

The point that I was trying to make was that the knives in question were used to kill by people whilst under the influence of drugs, that was the problem. Their emotional outlet, probably, was to stab their loved ones, the solution.

 

I am not an authority but both cases were judged, correctly I think, as manslaughter. Had only blunt knives been to hand then maybe those two people would be alive today. But in one case I believe that an alternative would have been found.

[Gaffer]

The knife isn't the problem, it's the person using it.

 

When I conduct a self-defence seminar I put a 9" bladed knife on a table, in front of everyone, and ask how dangerous the knife is, to which everyone replies "it isn't" - correct.

Now, when I pick up the knife and do a stabbing motion (psycho style) and ask the same question I get the "very dangerous" reply - correct.

 

As part of the seminar I teach improvised weapons, of which there are far more every day items that have the same desired effect/result.

 

[ 02. August 2005, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: Gaffer ]

[Sportsman]

I accept all of that Gaffer. i teach pretty much the same thing on shotgun safety at the gun club. A shotgun isn't dangerous until someone picks it up, loads it and points it at someone else. Then it is so dangerous you have to jump through hoops to get a licence for it!

I also understand that you can injure / kill people with an assortment of everyday objects, having seen it done.

The fact is though, the average teenager is not going to go out with a toothbrush in his pocket! won't impress his mates much.

When an alcohol fuelled row gets out of hand, your safe household utensil can become a weapon very quickly and personaly I would rather be hit with a broom than stuck with an 8" blade.

Let me give you an example, appropriately for this forum the weapon was one of the long thin flexible fish filleting knives, often carried by sea anglers, in fact I used to have one myself.

The knife had been used in an assault in the street and the victim had been stabbed in the small of the back. The entry wound was tiny and looked insignificant, to the point where the victim did not report it immediately, he was only brought into casualty several hours later when he collapsed.

Taken to surgery, the blade had penetrated his right kidney, his liver, his diaphragm and the base of his right lung. Being such a fine sharp blade it had sliced easily through the organs. The injury, not surprisingly, resulted in death for a 17 year old boy and a life sentence for his 18 year old friend.

Yes, it could have happened anyway, it could have been a different weapon, but the fact is it was a knife, carried out of bravado, made to a design which increased it's deadliness and did not increase it's effectivness at filleting fish. Professional fish filleters for instance, don't use them.

If you want to see a frightening sight, look at some of the adverts at the top of this page (Elton will love you for it) and then tell me how you can justify ownership of such things in this society.

Maybe if everyone carried one it would keep the crime rate down :confused:

Dave

[DavyR]

On the question of knives and the law, I do traditional longbow archery, and a lot of my fellow archers carry 10" blades of the sort illustrated at the foot of this page:

 

http://www.eagleclassicarchery.co.uk/misc.htm

 

In the unlikely event of a police raid on an archery tournament, what would they make of the claim that they're for digging buried arrows out of the ground?

 

Sportsman, presumably your lock blade knife never leaves the house, but can you envisage the day when merely possessing such a weapon is enough to get you arrested (or is that the case already)?

[Sportsman]

No it doesn't. I carry a smaller Opinel when out shooting or fishing.

Can I foresee a day when carrying a knife WITHOUT GOOD REASON will be unlawful? Yes I can

Should the general sale of knives and other bladed weapons be better controlled? of course!

Will any of this make a difference? I doubt it.

BTW, had a look at the archery knives. From a practical point of view you could probably dig out arrows from the ground with a tent peg (yes, I know, you can stab someone with a tent peg as well!)from the point of view of equipping yourself with a traditional tool they look great. It's unlikely, given their price, the average 17 yr old will have access to one, particularly when he can get a blade just as big and sharp from the hardware shop for a tenner!

Traditional knives are also carried in Scotland, the "Black knife" carried in the top of the stocking when Highland dress is worn.

I am not against knives per se and like quality craftsmanship as much as the next bloke, but some of the knives advertised on this page have no other purpose than inflicting maximum damage, and those I would control much better. That also includes the Samurai swords that you can get from car boot sales!

Dave

[DavyR]

I've found some quite good clarification here:

 

http://www.bushcraftuk.co.uk/articles/knife_law.html

[Sportsman]

Very illuminating Davy

I notice in the conclusion he specifically mentions youths with kitchen knives.

Otherwise, I am interested to find out if my Opinel with its rotating collar is a locking knife.

Most locking knives lock automatically on opening and you have to press something to release them. The opinel has a rotating collar which you have to rotate yourself, so if you don't rotate the collar it's not a lock knife.

[DavyR]

That'd be a fine point to argue in a court of law!

[Steve Walker]

Sportsman:

 

Can I foresee a day when carrying a knife WITHOUT GOOD REASON will be unlawful? Yes I can

As I understand it, carrying a knife with a blade more than 4 inches long without good reason already is.

 

The only situation where I can see this preventing injury is the spur-of-the-moment domestic. Unpremeditated and, to all intents and purposes, more accident than malice. So it may help in those incidents where someone loses self control, there's a knife to hand and no scissors / screwdriver / meat cleaver / blunt instrument available as an alternative weapon. I wonder how many cases a year this represents, and whether the cost of policing a kitchen knife ban might be better spent doing something more about domestic violence. Frankly, if I had to live with someone likely to behave like that, I'd hide the kitchen knives myself.

 

For any situation where premeditation is involved, this will have no effect whatsoever. Ban the sale of pointed knives, and the person who wishes to obtain one as a weapon will make one or use a screwdriver, chisel, stanley knife, bankstick etc. Since illegal firearms seem to be very easy for criminals to get hold of, I can't see that controlling the sale of carving knives will keep them out of the wrong hands.

 

So, the only solution I can see is to enforce the existing laws on the sale and carrying of knives and to deal with the root causes of why people want to stick them in others. In the case of "accidental" domestic stabbings, I think we just have to accept that some small degree of risk is a corollary of living in a society in which we are treated like reasonably free adults.

 

Speaking of which, Tesco wouldn't sell me three packets of 16 Ibuprofen last night. I'm not even sure that ibuprofen sales are legally restricted in the same way as paracetamol sales, but putting that aside, I was free to purchase as much tobacco and alcohol as I liked...

 

[ 02. August 2005, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: Steve Walker ]

[DavyR]

People try to kill themselves with ibuprofen too...

 

http://www.rcpe.ac.uk/publications/article...dMedication.pdf

 

Tobacco's too slow, alcohol's too messy...