Nursing report

[Alan Stubbs]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090827/tuk-w...rt-6323e80.html

 

Whilst I agree withthe sentiments of the report, the issue is the lack of resource nurses are given by their leaders to do the job propoerly in the first place.

 

Can 2 staff nurses and 2 auxiliaries expect to give proper care to a full 40 bed ward during the day at the same time as dealing with discharges and admissions?

[DavyR]

"In a foreword to the document, TV agony aunt and former nurse Claire Rayner, who is president of the charity, said she was "sickened" by what has happened to some parts of her profession, and that bad nurses should be struck off the medical register."

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/aug/27/n...nts-association

 

If she really said that (and wasn't just being misquoted), you'd think she'd know, as a "former nurse", that nurses aren't on the Medical Register (which is only for doctors) in the first place...they're on the Nursing & Midwifery Council Register.

[Alan Stubbs]

"In a foreword to the document, TV agony aunt and former nurse Claire Rayner, who is president of the charity, said she was "sickened" by what has happened to some parts of her profession, and that bad nurses should be struck off the medical register."

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/aug/27/n...nts-association

 

If she really said that (and wasn't just being misquoted), you'd think she'd know, as a "former nurse", that nurses aren't on the Medical Register (which is only for doctors) in the first place...they're on the Nursing & Midwifery Council Register.

 

 

She did say that to us, didn't she luvvy?

 

I maintain, however, that standards of care are being compromised and sanctioned by the senior staff and managers. If it wasn't, there'd be more obviously done to remedy the situation. As ever, it appears to be the lowest rung on the ladder to be hardest trodden upon.

[Sportsman]

As an ex nurse and following my recent stays in hospital I would say that the standards of nursing care are lower now than when I was a charge nurse.

In those days the wards were staffed mainly by student / pupil nurses with a few trained nurses in charge. Now they are staffed almost entirely by trained nurses and so you would expect standards to be higher.

Nurse training (in Scotland anyway) is now Degree level and nurses get much less practical "hands on" training than I did. This shows up in basic nursing procedures like washing and toileting.

I was on bed rest and couldn't use my arms following my accident, so I needed a bedbath. This often wasn't done until almost lunchtime and when it was done it was a slipshod and haphazard affair. This was not due to lack of staff or resources, it was due to lack of care and attention. Sorry. Could it be too many chiefs, not enough indians at ward level?

[DavyR]

I maintain, however, that standards of care are being compromised and sanctioned by the senior staff and managers. If it wasn't, there'd be more obviously done to remedy the situation. As ever, it appears to be the lowest rung on the ladder to be hardest trodden upon.

 

Another factor is that an awful lot of caring people were effectively prevented from becoming nurses when "Project 2000" raised the academic requirements for entry. Getting published in "The Journal of Advanced Nursing" might be all very well and looks good on the CV, but what sick patients appreciate more is somebody to actually spend time caring for them.

 

But you're right, its the "management culture" and under-staffing that's mainly to blame for the discrepancies in care. Most nurses are doing a great job in unenviable circumstances.

[DavyR]

Ah - Sportsman has just said more or less the same thing!

[Alan Stubbs]

Ah - Sportsman has just said more or less the same thing!

 

 

Funnily enough, it's pretty much what I was saying!

 

My son went into community nursing because he felt he would better be able tooffer the standard of care and help he felt an unwell person deserved and needed.

 

Sportsman mentioned the use of staff nurses rather than students and auxiliaries, it isn't about chiefs and indians, it's sheer deficiency in numbers of any nurses.

 

At one time, a staff nurse (my son) with 4 months pqe was left to manage a student and 2 auxiliaries and run a 40 bed ward during a day shift. His ward manager then wanted him to go as an escort on a transfer from Medway to London - he declined due to the risk his existing patients would have been under as there were no plans in place for cover during his absebce - the manager certainly wasn't going to get her hands dirty, she was too busy mis-managing.

 

I know Medway has a poor reputation, but I am almost certain that this situation is repeated all over the country and is a disgrace.

[RobStubbs]

<snip>

 

But you're right, its the "management culture" and under-staffing that's mainly to blame for the discrepancies in care. Most nurses are doing a great job in unenviable circumstances.

 

Totally agree, unfortunately everything seems to be management driven. Any problems then remanage the situation or worse get in more managers, more beaurocracy, more red tape and less time doing the front line jobs.

 

Whilst as I understand it this report focussed on nurses - because they are the front line - a small minority of doctors are equally poor. Of late they appear to have gotten a bit better (IME), but a total lack of bedside manner, treating patients as just cases and not people etc, were not uncommon even quite recently.

 

Simply put the whole system needs a massive overhaul, but who's going to be brave enough to give it what it needs to make it the NHS is has been and could easily be again ?

 

Rob.

[DavyR]

Simply put the whole system needs a massive overhaul, but who's going to be brave enough to give it what it needs to make it the NHS is has been and could easily be again ?

 

The NHS has had several massive overhauls over the last 30 years, none of which appear to have done much good. What do you reckon it needs then, Rob? And when do you think the Golden Age of the NHS was?

 

Bearing in my mind that we can't ever return to the "doctor knows best" climate that prevailed before patient choice and the internet made everyone an expert on their own healthcare...

[Sportsman]

There may well be deficiencies in staffing and organisation but I feel that due to the way nurses are trained these days they are lacking in certain basic skills and knowledge.

It is all well and good having highly qualified technical staff but when you are stuck in bed and feeling unwell what you need are good, practical bed side nurses and they seem to be a rarity under the current regime.

I think that all nurses (and doctors) should spend a couple of weeks on bed rest (with all that that entails) as part of their training. It would revise a few attitudes and possibly help them to see things from the patients point of view.

At times I felt that I was being a nuisance by expecting my sheets to be changed or to be washed and clean, or just basically made comfortable and looking at the numbers of nurses stuck in front of the ward computer terminal, and the amount of time they spent there, |I don't think it was an organisational problem. In a lot of cases I felt that these highly technical nurses lacked simple care and compassion and saw patients as a problem to be solved rather than a person with problems.