Fishermen Not Happy With The BBC

[Elton]

There's a more recent article regarding the BBC programme here:

 

http://bit.ly/bMM5xz

[big_cod]

You sore quite a lot of bass caught back in the 70,s? What do you mean by quite a lot? 50% of what they catch today? 30%? Or maybe 1 or 2% Paul if you where lucky. 15 years of trawling I think I caught 1. Today they regular land 50 to 60 boxes. so your saying because there are no cod there are bass?

regards.

 

Since the commisioning of tawness power station on southest coast of scotland in 80ss there have been bass caught around the station like mackeral from the shore a couple of my customers used to go there every week to catch bass on spinners from the beach next to the station last winter was one of coldest for quite a few years the water temperature was well down on other years yet there was still plenty of bass at flamborough its not global warming any more its climate change so they tell us so if the bass have moved north in numbers because thre water is warmer then looking on the cefas weather bouys the water temperature it the lowest for years since 63 so there shouldnt be a bass in sight this year around flamborouhg but then again as long as i can remember we have had bass here but not inthe numbers we have seen in the last 6or 7 years since the cod stocks around flamborough which have been massivly depleted there is a reason in the population explosion with bass and this year will prove it if it is down to water temeprature when you were trawling in your opinion john why was there no bass rembr we had plenty of mild winters when you were trawling.

 

http://map.cefasdirect.co.uk/wavenetmappin...aticMapPage.asp

 

paul.

Edited February 10, 2010 by big_cod

[Guest challenge]

Hello Paul.

The temperatures that you get off that website will be surface temperatures. We do water monitoring at 20 odd water monitoring stations that we have in our district every month. We take a surface temperature 1 meter and a seabed temperature besides several other analyses. Surface temperatures are very misleading especially on the inshore monitoring stations.

Last week seabed temperature of Whitby was somewhere in the region of 5c where in the summer months it can go as high as 16 to 18 c. could be a good reason why things have been very mean in the pots in the last few weeks. Your question about bass. Your correct Paul we did have the occasional mild winter but it wasn’t like the consecutive mild winters we have had over the last 6 to 8 years. You have to average out the water temperatures to make any sort of significant water temperature analyses.

It’s a good theory Paul a bit like the theory of them catching prawns in the North Sea in places where they wouldn’t see a prawn in year’s gone bye. Fishermen I was talking too said that they thought that it was because there wasn’t the cod (there main predator) in vast numbers anymore to eat the prawns therefore they where catching more prawns. But then again they where not fishing for prawns in them said areas using twin gear and a specialised pawning set up.

I wonder when was the last time any commercial trawlers (targeting cod haddock etc) fished any of the offshore grounds off our part of the coast. graveyard, barmaids, barnacle, easternmost rough, southwest patch, north west rough, inner shoal, outer shoal etc etc. lovely ground where you always got a decent trip at the right time of year. Who’s to say there isn’t fish there Paul? Not the fishermen who use to target those areas because there aren’t any left.

Regards.

[wurzel]

its climate change so they tell us so if the bass have moved north in numbers because thre water is warmer then looking on the cefas weather bouys the water temperature it the lowest for years since 63 so there shouldnt be a bass in sight this year around flamborouhg but then again as long as i can remember we have had bass here but not inthe numbers we have seen in the last 6or 7 years

 

paul.

 

Hello Paul

 

I have always said "they will live in it but not spawn successfully in it",that goes for bass and cod, cod will live in warmer conditions but will not spawn successfully and the opposite for bass they will tolerate cooler conditions but will not spawn successfully in it.

Some bass have perhaps moved further north but the majority will be the offspring of the bass that as you say have always been there, there is always a time laps from spawning to catching and with bass the time laps is much longer than say cod, the bass you are seeing in catches now were probably spawned in a mild year 10 years ago it takes 6 years just to get to 36 cm the size limit and will continue to live in the area for a few years yet although there must be a cut off point where bass will not tolerate the temperature as there is for cod. Reports are that the bass recruitment for recent years has been very low to zero so if that trend continues for another ten years like during the 60,s the bass stock will decrease again. If that is the case then cod will continue to increase for the next 10 years so things come back to how you experienced the 70's loads of cod but only a few bass.

[cleeclive]

If it was proven that fishing mortality was insignificant it would throw the fishing management industry in to turmoil.

I am certain that the natural mortality for cod is hugely under estimated.

I do honestly believe that the UK fleet as it is now could not over fish a duck pond .

 

I also drive a 4X4 and a ZRX 1200 that has more ground clearance than a Harley.

 

We had a crap trip with not much fish very cold NE winds finishing off with a dhan tow in the propeller causing a leak around the stern tube.

Hey Wurzel, sorry to hear about your trip. The bike sounds a bit fast plasticky for me, but it probably stops and goes around corners, and I doubt if bits fall of it every time you are out. Despite all that it won't sound right or need so much polishing

 

Back to fishing, looking at the current fleet size I guess you are about right on what it could sustain.

 

Fisheries science suffers from the same problem as everything else that affects our lives, the only true religion! mathematics. Everything that happens to us is ultimately described or driven by mathematics and scientists need data that they can put into mathematical formulae and then statistically justify. All of what you described about climatic affects on fish migrations cannot be used unles it is in some way quantiiable or can be measured. Regrettably this is the problem we face.

 

Anyway have you had a look at Blue Planet in Trouble on You Tube yet, another interesting BBc documentry.

 

I won't add any further inflamatory comments.

 

It has been a good debateand I value your knowledge and comments.

 

Take care on that bike

 

Cheers Clive

[barry luxton]

I do honestly believe that the UK fleet as it is now could not over fish a duck pond .

 

 

Evenin Wurzel.

 

You don't include the scottish guys in the duck pond do you.

 

quote:

Ten men have now been charged in the case, which is understood to involve mackerel valued at around £50 million. All 10 have made no plea or declaration and have been released on bail pending further examination.

end.

 

Big old duck pond for this lot of black fish to come from.

 

[wurzel]

Evenin Wurzel.

 

You don't include the scottish guys in the duck pond do you.

 

quote:

Ten men have now been charged in the case, which is understood to involve mackerel valued at around £50 million. All 10 have made no plea or declaration and have been released on bail pending further examination.

end.

 

Big old duck pond for this lot of black fish to come from.

 

 

Hello Barry

No I didn't have the pelagic fleet in mind.

 

But was it over fishing or just illegal fishing?

 

I see Iceland who are trying to fish them selves out of a financial crisis helped themselves with out asking to a fare amount. It seems to me that the pelagic stocks or more accurately the rights to the pelagic stock is a bit of a political game between governments these days.

[big_cod]

Hello Paul.

The temperatures that you get off that website will be surface temperatures. We do water monitoring at 20 odd water monitoring stations that we have in our district every month. We take a surface temperature 1 meter and a seabed temperature besides several other analyses. Surface temperatures are very misleading especially on the inshore monitoring stations.

Last week seabed temperature of Whitby was somewhere in the region of 5c where in the summer months it can go as high as 16 to 18 c. could be a good reason why things have been very mean in the pots in the last few weeks. Your question about bass. Your correct Paul we did have the occasional mild winter but it wasn’t like the consecutive mild winters we have had over the last 6 to 8 years. You have to average out the water temperatures to make any sort of significant water temperature analyses.

It’s a good theory Paul a bit like the theory of them catching prawns in the North Sea in places where they wouldn’t see a prawn in year’s gone bye. Fishermen I was talking too said that they thought that it was because there wasn’t the cod (there main predator) in vast numbers anymore to eat the prawns therefore they where catching more prawns. But then again they where not fishing for prawns in them said areas using twin gear and a specialised pawning set up.

I wonder when was the last time any commercial trawlers (targeting cod haddock etc) fished any of the offshore grounds off our part of the coast. graveyard, barmaids, barnacle, easternmost rough, southwest patch, north west rough, inner shoal, outer shoal etc etc. lovely ground where you always got a decent trip at the right time of year. Who’s to say there isn’t fish there Paul? Not the fishermen who use to target those areas because there aren’t any left.

Regards.

 

We did for quite a few years get mild winters resulting i massive explosion of pipefish along our coast but with last years cold winter that have all but vanished so again if the bass are here in numbers this year it aint water temperature that brings them in the numbers like that we have been seeing off flamborough i still believe they are there because the cod aint.

 

paul.

[wurzel]

We did for quite a few years get mild winters resulting i massive explosion of pipefish along our coast but with last years cold winter that have all but vanished so again if the bass are here in numbers this year it aint water temperature that brings them in the numbers like that we have been seeing off flamborough i still believe they are there because the cod aint.

 

paul.

 

The pipe fish is a good example of how stocks fluctuate and no doubt if the pipe fish was a commercial species you would have blamed over fishing for their depletion, the only reason the pipe fish have vanished and the bass haven’t is that pipe fish only live about 3 years when bass live 20, They will live in it but not spawn successfully in it.

 

Quote

i still believe they are there because the cod aint.

 

??? you were claiming 1000 box hauls not so long a go.

[big_cod]

The pipe fish is a good example of how stocks fluctuate and no doubt if the pipe fish was a commercial species you would have blamed over fishing for their depletion, the only reason the pipe fish have vanished and the bass haven’t is that pipe fish only live about 3 years when bass live 20, They will live in it but not spawn successfully in it.

 

Quote

i still believe they are there because the cod aint.

 

??? you were claiming 1000 box hauls not so long a go.

 

97+98 +99 our part of east coast still had a very good cod fisherie till the start of the late 90ss but those larger scottish boats did one hell of a lot damage so much that johns employers the local NESFC imposed a by law to try and keep them out or aback of 6 mile 90ft boats towing up and down the 3 mile and some even closer if am not mistaken they were presured by god sorry the man who owned most of the trawlers out of whitby and who i have been told by a little bird has been moaning about charterboats that man has one hell of a short memory of the practices which went on for years out of whitby.

 

paul.

Edited February 12, 2010 by big_cod