Speed Cameras and Speed?

[Chris Goddard]

Prompted by another post on another thread I am just posting this post in order to sort of address it as opposed to simply adding to the original post. The post was by "teme man" in the thread http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/forums/Ian-Tom...10&start=10

 

"Well a far as speed cameras are concerned with the news that several areas are switching them off there is already evedence that motorists are flouting the speed limits, hardly a surprise. But speeding is a REAL cause of death and injury, I shudder at the thought that I may have caused the death of a child by selfish speeding. So many lives ruined, but do you know what Chis it is a FACT that this does happen.

 

Oh! and dont get me started on distraction driving with mobile phones etc, my eldest son's girlfriend was in a car that was crushed by a lorry on the M5, didn't notice trafffis was staitonary as the driver was fiddling with his radio, her two sisters in the front were decapitated, and she was seriously injured but survived, but with constant pain, still."

 

Now while I do agree that speed kills people it is more correct to say I think that careless driving is the REAL killer!! Speed is simply SOMETIMES a by-product! Unless you say speed is anything above 1MPH?

 

On any Police programme the Police are seen as stating that SPEED kills! This is patently rubbish as speed does nothing at all itself!! It is irresponsible drivers COUPLED with a weapon (More usually a car) and ALSO speed which kill and worse I think MAIM people! I have recently endured the latest Camera, Action programme and it told me NOTHING I was not already aware of! Drinking for instance reduces your cognitive skills such as being able to react and judge distances. What DID get me was the actions of some individuals who were actually to me without description! Like the silly little bitch who allowed her DOG to lick here face. Not serious I hear you say? Not until you realise the dog was sat on her knee while she is driving!!! Stupid silly idiotic little girl! For my money she would have bother her legs broken and her face smashed in with a large something and left to enjoy the resultant!! And something similar for the rest of the idiots who stated "I am NOT dangerous as I am TOTALLY in control!" Stupid little bastards! IGNORANT little bastards!! I would not only ensure they NEVER got behind the wheel of a car again I would subject them to something akin to a crash test dummy job too!

 

BUT on the flip side, Speed Cameras? Were you aware that there is a CRITERIA for installing Speed cameras? And that si there HAS to be a certain number of accidents occur on the stretch of road in a certain amount of time? I THINK it is 2 deaths or SERIOUS accidents in 2 years? So how many of these have occurred on the local road where cameras have been installed? YES speed cameras are a GOOD thing! But fixed ones are a waste of time! Some people make it there lifes work to "fool" them!! Where mobile cameras catch ANYONE speeding! People like ME! I have since I started driving in August 1978 been caught speeding twice and fined once for the offence of speeding! And I paid right away as I was guilty as sin! And YES I have broken the speed limit on other occasions! Just been lucky enough NOT to get caught I suppose? BUT that doesn't make it any more right! But the one thing I have never done (To my CERTAIN knowledge) is drink and drive! I HAVE had a drink, yes. BUT not to the stage where I am over the limit! But then again at least I am honest, it is the stupid little girls and boys who say they CAN speed and drink and drive and they are perfectly OK! RUBBISH!

Edited August 18, 2010 by Chris Goddard

[poledark]

So what are you saying Chris?

 

I go out about once a month with a couple of other blokes and sometimes women, and we set up notice boards and then a speed recorder which tells oncoming drivers that they are being recorded and also tells them the speed they are doing. This was set up following several severe accidents on this stretch of road..5 of them fatal. We (the locals) campaigned to have the speed reduced to 40mph, but still people speed along at up to 84mph (this was a very large tipper truck) Just out of interest 84mph is the maximum speed that our equipment can record! This was as the truck was approaching a stepped crossroads!

 

There has been an overall decrease in the average speed (at least while we are operating) but no more fatals, even though there have been a couple of quite spectacular pileups.

 

My belief is that the main purpose of speed cameras is to try to gradually instill a culture of restraint into drivers....not helped by the constant barrage from the motor and film industry of the "thrills" of speed.

 

I fully understand that many people don't want any restrictions of their freedom to do what they like when they like (I don't like having to be licensed to fish) but in the case of driving a potential lethal weapon, then the sad fact is that there has to be some control over those who cannot (or will not) control themselves.

 

Speed camera coupled with adequate signing does reduce speed,does make most drivers more aware of their speed, and the effect of passing one does last for a few more miles, so also has an effect way beyond the actual camera. That is what the recorded data from our readings from the last 3 years seem to indicate.

 

Den

Edited August 18, 2010 by poledark

[Steve Walker]

You have to separate driving too fast for the conditions from exceeding the speed limit, and you have to recognise that speed control is not the most important factor in road safety. There seems to be a belief, perhaps fostered by the obsession with speed limit compliance, that so long as you are obeying the number on the stick everything will be fine. That is a very dangerous belief.

 

In the 2006 police Stats 19 data for contributory factors in road accidents in which someone is injured or killed, 95% of accidents were not caused by breaking the speed limit, and 88% were not caused by driving too fast. Looking only at those accidents in which someone was killed, 88% did not list speeding and 83% did not list driving too fast.

 

Most accidents are not caused by speeding, and driving too fast for the conditions is more of a problem than driving too fast for the law.

 

The single biggest factor, at 32%, was "Failed To Look Properly".

 

Inappropriate speed increases the risk of having an accident, and makes the consequences worse, but it not the only factor or even the most important factor in the prevention of death and injury on the roads, and I welcome the return of some balance to the system.

 

In my opinion, the over zealous policing of speed was typical of the last government's habit of making important that which it could control, rather than trying to control what is important, and it skewed road safety policy in the same way that target driven management skewed priorities in the public services.

 

 

http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2006/contributory.pdf

[Sportsman]

We are constantly told that speed cameras are devices for making money and that police forces use them just for income.

If that were the case why are they all being switched off now that funding is being withdrawn?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13...es-program.html

You would thing that they would be increasing

[Steve Walker]

If that were the case why are they all being switched off now that funding is being withdrawn?

 

They are being switched off because the fines now go to central government and the running costs go to the local authorities.

[Chris Goddard]

So what are you saying Chris?

 

I go out about once a month with a couple of other blokes and sometimes women, and we set up notice boards and then a speed recorder which tells oncoming drivers that they are being recorded and also tells them the speed they are doing. This was set up following several severe accidents on this stretch of road..5 of them fatal. We (the locals) campaigned to have the speed reduced to 40mph, but still people speed along at up to 84mph (this was a very large tipper truck) Just out of interest 84mph is the maximum speed that our equipment can record! This was as the truck was approaching a stepped crossroads!

 

There has been an overall decrease in the average speed (at least while we are operating) but no more fatals, even though there have been a couple of quite spectacular pileups.

 

My belief is that the main purpose of speed cameras is to try to gradually instill a culture of restraint into drivers....not helped by the constant barrage from the motor and film industry of the "thrills" of speed.

 

I fully understand that many people don't want any restrictions of their freedom to do what they like when they like (I don't like having to be licensed to fish) but in the case of driving a potential lethal weapon, then the sad fact is that there has to be some control over those who cannot (or will not) control themselves.

 

Speed camera coupled with adequate signing does reduce speed,does make most drivers more aware of their speed, and the effect of passing one does last for a few more miles, so also has an effect way beyond the actual camera. That is what the recorded data from our readings from the last 3 years seem to indicate.

 

Den

 

 

Quite basically den I am I suppose basically agreeing with you?! In a roundabout way! FIXED speed cameras are a waste of time and money (FOR ME!) And according to the criteria for siting them there has to have been a certain number of accidents in a certain time. One thing our local (As was) council did because of this was to POST signs saying cameras wer being used. It worked for a while!! now it is as bad as ever! And the cameras have NOT been posted! BUT there are ALSO no speed cameras deployed either!

 

However cameras operated by someone physically standing using them are VERY effective! So yes get shot of the FIXED cameras and install MORE and allow MORE to be used of MOBILE cameras! Sorry but last time I looked the speed limit was 70MPH in the UK, PERIOD!!! (Sorry elton and all petrol heads?) And here in good ol' France it is 90Kph on normal roads and 110 on Motorways and dual carriageways. BUT it is 130Kph on Motorways if it is dry. And more than that IF you are unlucky enough to be caught you WILL be fined!! If you were not driving then TOUGH TITTY As you WILL be fined!

 

And the Police and others should be BLOODY thankful that there ARE good people like yourself out there Den who WILL give up there time and take trouble to do what you are doing! I would myself volunteer to carry out speed checks myself I would also PAY good money to be allowed into a small but adequately fitted out small room to TALK to some of the knobheads out there who THINK it is FUN to break the speed limit as a matter of course and drive with NO hands on the wheel and apply make-up and eat and apply make-up and all the other STUPID things they do while MAINTAINING they are GOOD drivers and accidents only happen to stupid people and they are GOOD drivers!! DESPITE what you and I say??

 

I make no apologies for this (rant) as this is something VERY close to my heart! I had to attend a road traffic accident VERY early on in my career and that was due to a wagon driver NOT being AWARE and killing several VERY dear friends of mine because of this!

[Steve Walker]

BUT it is 130Kph on Motorways if it is dry.

 

Crikey - that's over 80 miles per hour. Good job it's in France, it's lethal to do 80mph here (must be, it's illegal).

[Renrag39]

Personally I agree on some points but not others. Fixed cameras are pointless, they're nothing more than a .gov gimmick. Mobile cams have their uses and at least you can be stopped, tested and reprimanded and actually warned instead of fined, by a human than a soulless machine. Bad points about mobile cams is that they're not THAT mobile. You get to know where the police camp.

The thing that needs to be instilled into new drivers (its already too late for those already driving) is the danger of not being aware. I ride motorbikes and firmly believe they make you a better car driver. You become more naturally aware because you KNOW you are at risk. If you get in a car with a frequent bike rider you will notice 2 things. One, they generally leave more of a gap between them and the vehicle ahead and Two, they actively use their mirrors, not just cursory glances but proper, 'scanning' looks.

My way to make the roads safer is to make riding a motorised 2 wheeler mandatory for a suitable term before driving a car. This would also make existing car drivers more aware of motorbikes because there would be more on the road on any given day.

I know I am heavily biased but feel that it may have some truth.

It would also be good to somehow teach people to know how fast they can go SAFELY in any range of conditions, on different types of roads and road surfaces but alas, the only way to obtain that knowledge is by experience and it can be painful.

 

Renrag

[RobStubbs]

I think I'm agreeing with most of the above posts in saying speed is not the problem it's inappropriate speed, careless driving, call it what you will, but driving not in accordance with the road or traffic conditions, or not aware of your surroundings. It's inevitable I guess in these cost constrained times but speed cameras and policing motorways to catch speeders is just lazy and innappropriate 'policing' / traffic management. Catching someone doing 40 through a 30 zone, late at night is pointless and does nothing to improve the 'offenders' behaviours. Far better to catch some mum (or dad) doing the school run talking on the phone, unaware of their surroundings, doing 30 on the same bit of road with kids coming out of school. That's the kind of thing that should be being policed and that would make a difference to road safety in the future.

 

Government are very happy re-educating criminals, keeping them out of jail and trying to modify their behaviours. They are not however doing the same thing for dangerous drivers - or rather they are not looking to catch, and re-educate them.

 

Rob.

[Chris Goddard]

Now THAT is what I would like to be able to say Rob!! If I may say so an EXCELLENT post! Just I sometimes get a LIKKLE excited!