Fish Scales

[Gray-Catchpole]

Ray but do these barbel have the same amount when small, or does it vary, ie form one year to another.

 

is the original count the same from birth, on the same fish.

 

lol phone, its a good job we have you on board it really is

 

[ 19 April 2002, 12:51 AM: Message edited by: Gray-Catchpole ]

[Gray-Catchpole]

sorry, chris yes i would be very interested, thanks.

[Vagabond]

Gray-Catchpole:

 

is the original count the same from birth, on the same fish.

 

lol phone, its a good job we have you on board it really is

Gray - as far as anything I have ever read on fish scales goes, the answer is yes. If a scale is lost, a replacement scale grows.

 

What would be interesting to know is the variation in scale count from different fish from the same spawning - ie how much "family likeness" is there?

 

Does anyone know if such a study has ever been done?

 

Re phone - couldn't agree more. What would we do without the colonial input :confused:

[Chris Plumb]

Gray-Catchpole:

sorry, chris yes i would be very interested, thanks.

Here you go Gray...

 

Number of scales in the lateral line - typical values.

 

Barbel 56-60

Bleak 42-52

Bream 51-60

Char 130-140

Chub 44-46

Common Carp 30-40

Crucian Carp 28-33

Dace 45-55

Grayling 74-96

Gudgeon 40-45

Minnow 80-92

Orfe 56-61

Perch 62-74

Pike 121-144

Roach 38-49

Rudd 38-42

Ruffe 35-40

Salmon 114-130

Silver Bream 43-51

Tench 87-115

Trout (Brown) 115-132

Trout (Rainbow) 120-150

Zander 70-83

 

Chris

[Vagabond]

One of the problems of "scale counts" is that different "authorities" give different counts.

 

Lets take (say) crucian carp as an example. Each of the following authors gives a different range. I've put the oldest books first, so you can see the numbers have crept up in the last hundred years!

 

Houghton "34 punctured scales"

Tate Regan 28-35

Travis Jenkins 28-35

Otto Schindler 31-35

Collins Guide 31-35

Peter Maitland 31-36

 

and all these differ from Chris's figure of 28-33 (out of interest, from where did these figures come Chris?)

 

Similar disagreement occurs with many of the other fishes - its a minefield, especially when you start looking at hybrids.

[Chris Plumb]

Vagabond,

 

I didn't doubt for one second that there would be differing counts from different experts! (& that you would be the one to know that!! )

 

My source is from a very old concise encyclopaedia I've had since childhood (so it's nearly 30 years old now )- the source of these figures is given as J. VOSTRADOVSKÝ which sounds very East European to me and as such is probably based on continental observations!

 

Intrestingly, and to continue your Crucian comparisons my '65 McClanes Standard Fishing Encyclopedia (without the a - this yanks just can't spell ) gives the figure at 28-35 (& 29-37 for goldfish). These figures are attributed to one David Marlborough.

 

As you say -it's a minefield.

 

ATB

 

Chris

[Jon Callan]

Hi Chris,

 

Out of interest how many do Mirror Carp have normally???

 

Cheers,

 

Jon.

[Vagabond]

Chris Plumb:

Vagabond,

 

to continue your Crucian comparisons my '65 McClanes Standard Fishing Encyclopedia (without the a - this yanks just can't spell ) gives the figure at 28-35 . These figures are attributed to one David Marlborough.

 

As you say -it's a minefield.

 

ATB

 

Chris

Yes - didn't mention that

- cos I proof-read DM's original contribution

 

I suppose we should assume that someone, somewhere, actually sat down and counted scales (as opposed to copying what previous authorities had said)

 

That suggests that the true range for crucian is 28-36 (ie someone has seen a 28, and someone else a 36)

 

However, looking at the tail end of most fish, it isn't always easy to decide exactly where the last scale is.

 

I still have a lot of scales in a box somewhere taken from fish I caught 30-odd years ago - in those days (before scanners Leon) I mounted them in a glass photographic slide and projected them onto a screen. I could put some on my scanner so as to compare them with your present day scales - ie to see if growth rates have deteriorated over the years.

 

For example Leon, bass up to 10 lb caught in the sixties - mullet up to 5 lb odd also - any interest?

[Gray-Catchpole]

cheers chris, thanks for all your comments chaps.

[Alan Pearce]

Growth 'check' rings are not in my limited experience a truly accurate way of ageing fish. This can only be confirmed by counting the rings on a fishes (a dead fishes) ear bone. Someone very much experienced like Bruno can give more details.

 

Alan.