Fish Removed From Nature Reserve

[argyll]

Who the hell really cares who tries to get the job done. Didn't see any intervention by any of the FACT factions or good old Martin. Presumably they all have bigger fish (sorry) to fry.

 

[ 07. October 2005, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: argyll ]

[Sportsman]

Don't worry, we have a charter

Our fishing is perfectly safe

[argyll]

I joined a club that has a fair chunk of the Kennet where Mr Salter fishes. I figure he's not going to bugger up his own fishing....is he?

 

[ 08. October 2005, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: argyll ]

[Peter Waller]

slodger:

Peter,

 

Not wishing to drag up old subjects as you've said, but considering that they will never turn around the Fox hunting ban, at least not in my opinion, doesn't the remaining broader remit of the CA have any appeal to you?

Broader remit? Oh, you mean trying to drag veryone else in on the side of the fox hunters. In my honest opinion the CA only has one remit, and everything else is incidental to that.

[Sportsman]

Well, were all entitled to our opinion Peter

[trent.barbeler]

Dear Peter,

 

"I just see the CA for what they are Lee. Thought that we had gone into that in some depth in the dull, repetitive and dreary past. You don't really want to rekindle old fires do you?"

 

Dull? Repetitive? Dreary? I thought the banter way back concerning the CA was quite entertaining if not informative surely? And I still like the "fact" (no pun intended) that here on AN we all get an equal chance of airing our views on all sorts of subjects relative to fishing. Hey Peter, you yourself must surely hold the all time record on AN for airing yours?

 

I actually understand your position on the CA and in truth, there may something in what you say seeing as I got no answers to questions I asked "twice" from said org.

 

But the truth is, whether we like it or not, no one org has the right to claim "they" represent angling interests no matter what this present government reckon. I actually like the bit where CA has individual members and is funded by such. I like the idea, or my perception of the idea, that CA look after their "members" interests. Much the same as FACT does when it represents its constituent membership’s interests. No problem for me on either count as every one has a right to defend their interests?

 

But as for representing "angling" in its entirety? Sorry Peter, no one can lay claim to that one at the moment. Perhaps one day.

 

Going back to the CA for a moment, cast your mind back to the marches organised by the CA in protest against legislation concerning fox hunting and possible future threats to other country pastimes. During those marches, CA was castigated by certain government MP’s and Ministers. But the truth was, those marches were not just made up of fox hunters, but every type of shooter, falconer, game keeper, stalker, river keeper, rabbit catcher, coursing folk, ordinary country folk, anglers of all types, all of whom apparently, got labelled “fox hunters” merely because they marched in protest against what they saw as eventual government moves being made against their own particular pastime or sport. You see Peter; the CA “does” have within its membership lots of other sportsmen and women apart from fox hunters. And yes, they have angling members also. Interesting to see a government statement welcome the importance of shooting, fishing, and land ownership within the scheme of things when not that long ago a good proportion of the very same people were marching through the streets of London and getting slated for it by certain government members? You may well be able to sincerely single out the CA as high jacker’s of angling and nothing else Peter, but I find such a belief extremely blinkered against the actual reality of “who” make up the CA membership and what these members truly believe the CA stands for.

 

In the other camp, take out JAGB from FACT and you have a little fish with no teeth. JAGB will always retain their own identities and independence no matter what type of quango is made up supposedly representing “angling” that they become part of. Therefore, I see no long term future for any such angling representation based upon anything other than the “one” angling organisation representing “all” who pay to become a member. Same drum same noise but that’s the reality. What JAGB have are individual members and self funding, but they are separate orgs representing their membership’s different interests. This means ultimate stalemate sooner or later concerning any notion for unity and a single org representing angling interests working within the FACT type framework. That’s where the CA has angling licked as they have managed in a mere few short years to unify field sports 100% when angling as you perceive it Peter has totally failed over countless years.

 

Like all governments, this one will get ousted sooner or later. Then like all ousted governments, they will eventually return to take up office once more.

 

Let you and I make a bet Peter when we see such a day as we surely will.

 

I bet that when Labour get ousted for lets say a four year exile, upon its return to power the CA, NOT FACT, will be waiting to receive them. And I’ll also bet that CA will, by that time, be far stronger than it is today.

 

Anyone like to wager that a future “alliance” gets formed between the CA, BASC, CLA, NFA and S&TA? I’ll have ten quid on that one.

 

Regards,

 

Lee.

[Peter Waller]

Thank you for your long and erudite epistle, Lee.

 

If the Tories ever get their act together, and inevitably they will, although it seems unlikely at the moment, and, heaven forbid, they return to power, there will be a brief flurry of CA activities. However, when it becomes clear that the Tories are not going to waste their time on repealing the fox hunting legislation, I foresee that the CA will collapse and declare itself bankrupt and bereft of a mandate.

 

Yes, I do see a long overdue alliance between angling and the BASG.

 

FACT may not be perfect, but its all we have thats worthwhile having. The CA is there because it has forced itself onto angling. FACT is there by seemingly luke warm consent, but consent it has. It has one intent, angling, and nothing but angling. Nothing underhand about FACT.

 

The CA has, alegedly, unified country field sports, but why? As a means of protecting fox hunting maybe?

 

I know that you and I share one sincere conviction, we require total transparency. That is not a term that I would use in the same sentance as CA! However, 'devious' is.

 

[ 09. October 2005, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: Peter Waller ]

[captain birdseye]

Ken L:

No fish =

No Herons.

No Kingfishers.

No Grebes.

No Otters.

 

It what way is it a "Nature Reserve" ?

Well said my good man

[trent.barbeler]

Dear Peter,

 

Your labour party convictions due you credit as they are as steadfast as the reality that the Tories will gain power sooner or later. But when? Who knows?

 

Its interesting though that you seem to imply that the CA will continue for some considerable time yet when you said;

 

" If the Tories ever get their act together, and inevitably they will, although it seems unlikely at the moment, and, heaven forbid, they return to power, there will be a brief flurry of CA activities. However, when it becomes clear that the Tories are not going to waste their time on repealing the fox hunting legislation, I foresee that the CA will collapse and declare itself bankrupt and bereft of a mandate."

 

Didn’t the Tories say they would repeal the ban on hunting?

 

Not that long ago Peter, many were saying that the CA would capitulate once fox hunting got banned. Well, that day has come and gone so have we seen the CA capitulate or collapse? When many were saying the CA would collapse once fox hunting got banned, I went on record as saying I thought quite the opposite. And further more, I forecast that the CA would grow stronger when any such ban became a reality. Out in the "sticks" where many live, this has proven to be a reality.

 

I'm 100% in agreement with you concerning the reasonable expectance that a Tory government will be far more in tune towards the CA than their labour counterparts are presently. And I believe that a Tory government "will" hold serious high level talks with them. Then again, I'd expect any "angling" type org in the vein of FACT, or even FACT itself (if they still exist) will carry on trying to establish the same relations with the Tories it appears to have with the present labour government. Business as usual I suppose but I’d expect the Tory door to be held open for CA whilst FACT might have to knock upon it for a while?

 

The thing is Peter, by your own words, the re-emergence of a Tory controlled government "could" be many years away? Certainly several more years unless things really go breasts up and a vote of no confidence gets brought about. Therefore, are you saying that you now expect the CA to continue on as it is now right up until a Tory government gets re-elected? If so, that’s a testament surely that you expect the CA to be around for a number of years yet? Didn’t you once say that the CA would collapse once fox hunting got banned?

 

Plainly, although you might choose to perhaps disregard it, the CA “does” have a great deal of cross political party support including labour support. It’s a far cry from reality to assume or say that only the Tories might be sympathetic to the CA cause. And my word, in domestic politics attitudes can change very rapidly. Politicians are a fickle bunch at the best of times don’t you agree?

 

“Yes, I do see a long overdue alliance between angling and the BASG.”

 

Really? I said; that a future “alliance” gets formed between the CA, BASC, CLA, NFA and S&TA? Big difference between the above and your alliance? Mine has the CA in it.

 

Do you think that the BASC stands alone within the broad church that makes up the congregation of “field sports” Peter? Do you actually think that BASC would enter any “angling” alliance, which presumably by “alliance” you refer to FACT, leaving the rest of their field sports brothers and sisters behind? I actually believe if BASC were to consider such an alliance it would want the rest of its field sports companions on board “including” the CA and fox hunters. How would such an alliance sit with you then Peter?

I happen to believe if it were not for other, far more serious political issues where this government wanted its back bencher’s fully compliant, the issue of banning fox hunting would never have reached the statute books. But now that it has, I also believe the issue is coming back to haunt them. Did this government drastically under estimate field sports total commitment to unity, further under estimating field sports total determination to stand with each other? I believe this to be the case and truly believe that because of field sports resoluteness to stand together the CA will now go on from strength to strength. You see Peter, all of field sports truly believe that their futures remain threatened, and that perceived threats come from “ALL” governments “NOT” just a labour one. The banning of hand guns then fox hunting served as their “wake up call” and from that awakening, there cannot be one single step taken backwards. That’s why field sports really are 100% united in a common front against a common enemy which threatens their way of life and livelihoods. And the perceived issue amongst some anglers that CA seeks to “highjack” angling means absolutely nothing to CA members and the rest of the field sports community as they see “angling” as being none supportive of their cause anyway!!

 

Your image of what “angling” is Peter, surely walks alone. But the CA and millions of other field sports participants and enthusiasts march on in their millions. Totally self funded and totally united. In CA or out of it, makes no difference because they fight for their futures together.

 

Do we?

 

No Peter, I feel you are mistaken in your belief that the CA will capitulate because of what may or may not happen to fox hunting. All previous milestones for CA collapse have now been passed and the CA grow stronger still.

 

CA high jacking angling for their own ends? Didn’t actually take place did it Peter? But the CA still remain and are stronger than ever.

 

Blimey. Seems that field sports and fox hunting didn’t need angling after all.

 

Then again, it probably never did.

 

Regards,

 

Lee.

[Peter Waller]

Lee, its not so much that I am pro Labour, more a case of pro England. Until the Tories elect an energetic leader with leadership qualities then, unless Labour really collapses, we are destined for atleast one more labour term. The CA will survive, in dilute terms, one more term, in the false hope that their friends in high places will come to their rescue.

 

BASC is coming to the fore, atleast in Norfolk. To be honest the CA appears to have disappeared up here! Trouble with the CA is that it is seen, by many, as a London organisation. There used to be, and might still be, a very prominant notice on a farm in Norfolk asking if Norfolk is the breadbasket of England, or the dustbin of London? It is no secret that many country folk are deeply suspicious of their city cousins and their motives.

 

The CA might survive, but it will have to be a very different animal, and one that can live down its roots.

 

[ 10. October 2005, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: Peter Waller ]