Pike Patrol Routes

[Leon Roskilly]

John,

 

It's always puzzled me that lures can be decorated with tails and skirts of silicone, rubber and wool, that enhance their catching power (often supposedly!), but no self-respecting pike ever seems to go for a lure with a leaf or bit of streamer weed attached.

 

However, static dead-bait is another matter and once a pike has it's scent it will nose quite deeply into a weedbed to retrieve an easy meal.

 

With lots of leaves in the water, and on the bottom, I shouldn't worry too much about the odd leaf masking your bait, if anything it probably makes it look more natural, not less.

 

Tight Lines - leon

[The Flying Tench]

I've been thinking about the idea that pike don't chase small baits to preserve energy. Of course, until a pike can talk we'll never know for sure. My slight doubt is because even a sprat would supply far more energy than is needed to chase dozens of fish, and with a wounded fish the pike would have a very high chance of success.

 

I'm not doubting the conclusions, so it's a bit academic really, but I wonder if part of the reason might be that if a pike chases, and even catches, a smaller fish it will scare the shoal and cause it to lose larger fish. Same idea, just a slightly different 'angle'.

[Leon Roskilly]

johnclarke:

I've been thinking about the idea that pike don't chase small baits to preserve energy. Of course, until a pike can talk we'll never know for sure.

And now for the science bit:

 

http://www.fishecology.org/diets/sizepdpy.htm

 

http://www.fish.washington.edu/classes/fis...20Structure.pdf

 

 

Specific to pike:

 

http://www.oikos.ekol.lu.se/Oikos.88.3.abs...9927nilsson.htm

 

Interestingly, Zander go for a strategy that involves eating mainly small yet abundant fish.

 

That probably allows them to co-exist with pike by lessening food competition, but is probably more to do with the zander's adaptaption to feed in low light/cloudy weedless water conditions.

 

see: http://www.ingentaconnect.com/searching/Ex...000004/art00019

 

 

Of course, there's a whole lot more out there when you do a google search on 'predator prey size ratio pike' etc

 

That's something else worth remembering, when you have your theory, it's probable that someone, somewhere has already done some scientific research along those lines that could be helpful, and modern day anglers have all the power of the internet and search engines to help track down relevant material. (It's a great shame that many papers only have abstracts, on the net and you have to fork out for access to the full article, similarly with many academic wesites that you need to subscribe to the site, before being allowed to view articles. But I suppose even scientists and researchers have to live!)

 

Just don't believe everything. Remember pike haven't read the rules!

 

And nothing anybody tells you is really going to better knowledge that comes from your own experience and a questioning mind.

 

Tight Lines - leon

[Steve Burke]

Leon Roskilly:

Steve,

 

Could it be related to how much the water in the lake is being moved around?

 

On days when there isn't much movement, then a bait that produces a low volume or not such a concentrated scent is likely to be as successful as a bait producing a high volume/high concentration of scent (particularly if the low volume scent is of a nicer flavour from the pike's point of view).

 

The fluids are not having the opportunity of being mixed with such a large volume of water, or being more effective when spread over a greater area/distance.

 

Whereas on days when the water is moving around and mixing more (and this may be barely imperceptable to an observer), then a powerful scent trail will spread further, and retain its strength, giving it an advantage over what may be (to the pike) a much nicer scent, that rapidly becomes too diffuse to be so effective under such conditions.

An interesting idea, Leon.

 

However, I've been thinking this over since you posted, and something is bugging me at the back of my mind suggesting otherwise. It's probably some half-forgotten experience from years ago. The price of growing old I'm afraid!

 

Certainly when it happens that a smelly bait gets more pike I'd be prepared to go along with you. But what about the days when the pike prefer a more subtle flavour, ignoring the stronger flavoured baits completely?

 

Talking of baits, one of my favourites is a mackeral head. In fact, I prefer the head section to the tail. This was certainly useful when fishing with a friend who preferred tail sections!

 

Mind you, I do use them "upside down" to the conventional way, with the head facing up the line. I find this casts better as the thick end goes through the air first - just like an aeroplane wing.

 

I also do very well with deadbaits, including half mackeral, on a sunken float paternoster. Contrary to what many believe there's absolutely no need to arrange the bait so that it sits horizontally. The pike don't mind at all!

 

A sunken float paternoster can be very useful when presenting baits over weedbeds, and even more so when there's a gravel bar or two in the way. However, I don't just use them then, often starting with one rod on such a rig and another on a ledgered bait to see if the pike have a preference on the day.

 

With a sunken float paternoster you can also twitch a bait back with less chance of it being pulled into a weedbed compared with a conventional popped-up bait.

 

Additionally, by varying the tension you can control how far off bottom the bait is presented. You can also vary the tension to give the bait some vertical movement without pulling the bait along the bottom. This very often results in an immediate take!

 

Do make sure that you use a drop-off indicator with an adjustable sliding weight with this rig. As I've mentioned before I use a modified Fox Pike swinger - see my review at http://anglersnet.co.uk/reviews/fox-pike-swinger.htm.

 

The rig I use has the sunken float on the paternoster link, and is similar to those I use for perch fishing except that it has an uptrace to prevent bite-offs. To ensure it runs freely I use a large bore John Roberts Run Ring. See http://anglers-net.co.uk/authors/steve01.htm for the perch rig.

[Leon Roskilly]

Steve Burke:

But what about the days when the pike prefer a more subtle flavour, ignoring the stronger flavoured baits completely?

Hi Steve,

 

According to the theory, that would be a day when there is little motion in the water.

 

The pike would encounter both strong and the weak flavoured baits close to where the baits are, and the weak flavoured bait would still be undiluted enough to be detected by the pike.

 

Given the choice, it prefers the 'taste' of the weak flavoured bait over the stronger, less pleasant taste, so on these days its the weak flavoured bait that scores best.

 

But on a day when there is a lot of water movement, the flavour of the preferred but weak bait is soon diffused, and won't be found unless a pike happens upon it almost by accident, whereas the stronger flavoured bait, though not so nice, can still be detected by pike over a much larger distance, and so those baits score best on that kind of day.

 

Of course such a theory can be quite easily tested, as some baits would perform much less well in running water, than on still waters.

 

(Come to think of it, I only ever use smelts on still waters. Perhaps I unconciously realised that smelts weren't doing the business so well in in running water some time ago, and simply stopped using them for river fishing without working out why!)

 

But just remember, it's only an unresearched idea that might possibly fit the facts and offered as an example of possible ideas that might need to be thought about more deeply, and experimented with to determine whether it has any value.

 

Tight Lines - leon

[The Flying Tench]

Leon, thanks for the articles on predator-prey size ratios. However, I couldn't see that any of them proved the point about the reason for a predator going for a particular size of prey being to do with energy conservation. I can't see how you'd prove that without talking to Mr Pike, but maybe someone's thought of a way! Anyway, it doesn't affect anything because the point is clearly made that bigger predators go for bigger prey, as you say.

[Newt]

but no self-respecting pike ever seems to go for a lure with a leaf or bit of streamer weed attached

 

Leon, I would think that since a lure is supposed to represent a living prey thingy the pike would realize that no fish/worm/whatever it had ever seen would swim around with a leaf or piece of weed attached so it would look seriously unnatural. Also with a lure, the extra item would completely mess up the 'action' of the lure so that it would not resemble whatever it was supposed to resemble.

 

Dead creatures, OTOH, are very likely to have the odd leaf or twig or piece of weed on them.

[Russell Fitzpatrick]

Leon Roskilly:

 

 

 

(Like Steve I also make the top set of trebles sliding, so that if the top hook engages, the bottom fixed hook is drawn away from the back of the pike's throat to where the first hook has found a hold.

 

This also has the advantage that the second hook may reinforce the hold of the first hook in what must be soft flesh.

 

If it is the bottom (fixed) hook that has found a hold, the sliding hook can be removed from the pike's mouth by sliding it along the wire toward the swivel, allowing easier access to the remaining treble that has engaged.

 

But the main reason for doing this is so that any trace can be adjusted to the size of the bait to get the best position for hooking and for presentation.

 

When making up a trace, I'll pass the trace wire through the eye, then one turn around the shank, before pulling a piece of silicone tubing over the eye and ont the shank).

 

 

Tight Lines - leon

intresting posts lads,

 

(just read them not been on for a while)i recently psoted a question on pike and pred forum about wether to have the top trebele sliding or fixed,most said fixed,

i too for a while have used sliding top treble,i have not had any problems hooking up,and all the pike have been hooked at the front or side of the scissors,plus the too trebels are almost next to each other pharhaps ensureing a solid hook hold in one are rather than two areas hooked up both trying to hold.as mentioned it is much easier to chop and change bait sizes.so my question is,fixed or sliding? wich is the better hook hold? also i find if it does move on the strike,it often piggy tails the trace where it has moved.and if it can move how can it grab a goood hold in that bony mouth?

[Peter Waller]

I find that as it gets colder then smaller lures tend to catch more, e.g. minnow baits. My reasoning is that a pike attacks because the lure is there to be attacked, not because its food. A big lure is a big meal, not what the pike wants.

 

Interestingly I was re-reading Bickerdyke's book on piking last night. In it suggests that you should buy various sizes of successful lures, keeping the smaller sizes for when it gets colder! So maybe I'm onto something !

[Andrew Burgess]

I agree with Ratty. Much better to have fixed top hooks and make different sized traces for different sized baits.